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- Hacker News
- > The lower bound for contributing to mathematics will now be to prove something that LLMs can’t prove, rather than simply to prove something that nobody has proved up to now and that at least somebody finds interesting.
5.5pro is amazing but this implication might not be true & is the core argument of this piece.
AI will prove all sort of things - interesting, boring & incorrect.
To sort it will be the task of the PhD.
by kang - Verification is generally a much lower bar than solution generation. I don’t think it’s likely sorting out the right from wrong will end up being this huge PhD level effort.by ianm218
- The task of a proof verifier is much simpler than the task of a proof finder (it’s basically equivalent to P vs. NP), and hence the bar for the required skills is lower. Merely verifying proofs isn’t research, and doesn’t impart research skills.by layer8
- Sorry, I'm reposting a comment I made yesterday that seems fitting:
> This reminds me of Antirez's "Don't fall into the anti-AI hype". In a sentence: These foundation models are really good at optimizing these extremely high level, extremely well defined problem spaces (ie multiply matrices faster). In Antirez's case, it's "make Redis faster".
by momojo - The vast, vast majority of students going into higher education this fall will not contribute much to science until 4-5 years down the road (should they do research). Realistically 6-7 when they're in full swing with their Ph.D.
If we look where these models were 5-7 years ago...the existential threat of the Ph.D. was not even on the radar back then. The people finishing up their doctorate now are the first that can truly leverage these tools.
Now, if these to-be researcher students feel defeated (enough to quit), or completely lean on AI models the work for them, we're going to have a problem. Same with the funding of those Ph.D. positions. If we move away from "funding to produce researchers" to "funding to achieve results", will money that was usually spent to fund Ph.D. students start to flow towards compute?
If we look at it a bit cynically: Some researcher will be able to pump out a lot more papers by spending money on compute, than a couple of years of training students.
Interesting times. But also so much uncertainty. I feel terrible for the students that will have to decide now what they want to do, with all this knowledge.
by TrackerFF - It’s not as if institutions have been lavishing PhD students with money up until now.
As an afterthought budget item, those funds aren’t exactly attractive targets to raid for pursuing an expensive, different process.
by odyssey7 - PhD students are already using AI models to work for them. Most of the PhD candidates I know have $200 Claude Max plan which they use to their fullest.
I see that they are able to do researches that they were not previously able to do. And although I see that using AI has certainly diminished their ability to code some stuff up, I see it the same way as someone using scikit-learn or Pytorch to code their ML models -- indeed the underlying details is abstracted away from you, and without AI, you won't be able to do much, but the research that you do is indeed happening because of you and wouldn't have happened with just the AI doing the research.
by ndkap - > Now, if these to-be researcher students feel defeated (enough to quit), or completely lean on AI models the work for them, we're going to have a problem. [..] If we look at it a bit cynically: Some researcher will be able to pump out a lot more papers by spending money on compute, than a couple of years of training students.
Obviously this is already happening and will accelerate. Outside of grad work, you could already just buy a degree. Certainly in the softer disciplines, you can currently just buy a phd thesis and a good publication history. If you're in industry instead of academics, you can even buy a promotion. If your employer gives an AI budget to all workers then you quietly double that budget out of your own pocket for as long as it takes to get a promotion, then stop and just enjoy a bigger paycheck.
- I saw Tim Gowers give a talk at the AMS-MAA joint meeting in Seattle about ten years ago where he predicted that in 100 years humans would no longer be doing research mathematics. I wonder if he’s adjusted his timeline.
At the time I thought the key missing tool was a natural language search that acted like mathoverflow, where you could explain your problem or ideas as you understood them and get references to relevant literature (possibly outside your experience or vocabulary).
- And Teichmüller thought that Germany would win WW2 and volunteered for the Eastern Front.
Being a gifted mathematician does not make you right. In fact, mathematicians have a lot of bizarre theories.
by 34qJhah - As a TCS assistant professor from Eastern Europe, I always am a little jealous of the biggest names in math having such an easy access to the expensive, long thinking models.
Paying for Pro from any of my current academic budgets is completely ouf of the field of reality here -- all budgets tend to have restricted uses and software payments fit into very few categories. Effectively, I'd have to ask for a brand new grant and hope the grant rules allow for large software payments and I won't encounter an anti-AI reviewer; such a thing would take one year at least.
As a nail to the coffin, I was "denied" all Claude Opus recently as part of Microsoft's clampdown on individual (and academic) use of Copilot.
(Chagpt 5.5 Plus does not seem sufficient for any deeper investigations into new research topics, I've tried.)
Apologies for the rant.
- > I always am a little jealous of the biggest names in math having such an easy access to the expensive, long thinking models
I am starting to see folks saying - ok, so LLMs can do this, what value have you added ? modulo llm is becoming the norm.
by bwfan123 - Paste what you want me to ask 5.5 Pro and I'll paste you the response.by qq66
- I fully understand your rant! I pay ~20€/month for the Pro account, as my university has a deal with Microsoft and only seems to recognize Copilot, so it’s very hard to use one own’s funding for paying something else.by ziotom78
- I believe ChatGPT 5.5 Pro access is available for $100/month, is that an unrealistic level of expense for someone in your position and geography? Even if the university won't pay for it, it seems you'd like to use this tool for your own goals.
I'm not trying to shame here, just curious whether this is completely unattainable for most researchers in your area.
by nerdsniper - OpenRouter lets you pay by the token only (no subscription), has all the frontier models (including Opus 4.7, GPT-5.5) and most of the others, and if you use it sparingly it usually turns out to be quite cheap.by bambax
- It’s a classic example of the best positioned people being in the best position to keep reaping all the rewards.
There’s the example of a poor person and a rich person buying boots. The poor person’s boots wear out and have to be replaced while the rich persons boots last for many years due to higher quality craftsmanship. Over years, the poor person’s boots wear will pay may for boots.
by alsetmusic - At my university, everyone had to pay their AI subscriptions out of their own pocket, until a communal AI service was introduced recently. It took 2 years to set up and only serves gpt-oss-120b, so everyone is still using other services. But at least some admin can scatter the word "AI" all over the university's website now and has an excuse to reject any requests for AI subscriptions because "we already have AI".by johndough
- @NotOscarWilde drop your email here, I will reach out and happy to get you a pro account for a few months so you can try 5.5 pro.(work at OAI)by vthallam
- As a graduate student, this piece made me sad. I always believed that my work speaks for itself and transcends beyond my limited time on this cosmic experience. This notion of immortality was just a small intangible bonus I hoped for when I jumped into grad school. AI is making me feel less worthy.
- > I always believed that my work speaks for itself and transcends beyond my limited time on this cosmic experience
Any statement preceded by the word 'believe' is a coping mechanism.
> This notion of immortality was just a small intangible bonus I hoped for when I jumped into grad school
Any statement preceded by the word 'hope' is a coping mechanism.
> AI is making me feel less worthy
Worth comes from understanding, not achievement.
by alexashka - try meditation.by kranke155
- I feel bravery transcends time better than the odd scientific breakthrough which are often attributed to one, but whose roots came from a "lesser" unknownby ionwake
- Let me tell you, there is a ton more to learn in this reality than llms are capable of finding out on their own, especially when it comes to truth, ethics and morality. And those are the only thing that matter in the end when you leave this reality. A greater challenge does not exist.by timedude
- "If you value intelligence above all other human qualities, you're gonna have a bad time." - Ilya Sutskever, 2023by helloplanets
- You are worthy. You will hone your skills in grad school and be able to command these AIs better than somebody who hasn’t struggled with hard problems for a long time.by whatever120
- As someone who is much further down the track, I would kindly suggest you drop that line of thought. I've seen far too many brilliant and ambitious people drop into depression because of it.
You are worthy of doing this work because you are able to do it. Do the work because you love it and because you love the mystery. Enjoy every moment that you get to do it. Find joy in the great fortune you have to do this work while others toil away on tasks that bring them no satisfaction. Sometimes it's tedious, but sometimes it's incredibly rewarding in its own right.
Don't work for the possibility of eternal glory though, it just doesn't exist anymore.
by hodgehog11 - >So if your aim in doing mathematics is to achieve some kind of immortality, so to speak, then you should understand that that won’t necessarily be possible for much longer — not just for you, but for anybody.
This made me a little sad
by few - Now repeat that for every sort of human achievementby bananaflag
- I don't know that it's that disappointing. I doubt most of the great mathematicians were actually doing it to achieve immortality. I suspect most of them were either after (possibly indirect) practical applications (via the math -> physics -> engineering pipeline) or just "for the love of the game", appreciation of the beauty of math and the intellectual joy of doing it. AI might also take over the practical application side, but the other aspects are still there for the taking.by jdale27