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- Hacker News
- At the outset of my career I was lucky (in a way) to have the veil ripped forcefully off of my face as to the ugliness inherent in the VC backed tech world.
I was believing I was working on something very important as one of the initial hires in a 10 person standup, with series B funding "on the way any minute now," knew it was a risk but believed strongly in the tech, maybe naively.
Found out later, the CEO had been given a generous buyout offer by a competitor, in the 8 figures, a modest amount but far exceeding our level of debt/investment to that point, would have made several of us including him a decent chunk of change. This guy got it in his head at that point that the offer was insulting, and we should be worth billions, not this 'paltry' sum. I could barely believe it when I heard it way after the fact (I would have quit earlier if I had known). What I understand is the board of investors was not very happy with this and there would be no more funding to come in after that point. Within 6 months of that, I went from this bright eyed person to a person not receiving a paycheck for several months, wiping out my early-grad finances in record time, and a significant amount of debt, all the while they shopped our team around the country desperately looking for a buyer. (they did not find one and had to borrow more money to pay our wages).
Needless to say after that I resolved never ever ever to work at any kind of 'startup' ever again, and my career many years later has finally recovered (though my cynicism has not).
by JohnMakin - Same blog from a different URL 2 days ago:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48504361
Anyway, the answer to the question: 'Nerds', like any cultural grouping, are a product of their environment. The United States of today has developed much higher inequality, debt burdens, rent demands, maintenance cost demands and trade deficits than the same environment had in the past, largely due to the Fed policies of the 21st century, with some help in worsening things by all administrations.
by OgsyedIE - This is one of those sampling bias/availability heuristic problems.
Of course the ‘nerds’ you hear about and see online are extroverted self-promoters. Of course the most visible people in the internal culture of large organizations are the ones who do more talking than doing.
Those are the people who are doing all the talking.
It is a massive over sampling problem that leads you to think, by looking at eg LinkedIn, ‘why is everyone on here writing engagement-bait algorithm-maxing posts?’
Everyone is not; The content you see is by definition the content that maxed its algorithmic exposure.
by jameshart - What "charming personality", lol? Nerds always had a higher than average probability of being total assholes. That has always been my experience.by geremiiah
- Given your blatant generalisation, I simply believe you didn't pass the vibe check of that person and they would not want to have anything to do with you. Just how bullies detect nerds, nerds detect people who shun them, they just avoid conflict because it's a legit waste of time.
Anyway, I got some important coding to do now.
by traeame - Julian Assange and Mark Zuckerberg were two nerds on either side of the privacy spectrum in the twenty-teens.
One was framed and tortured, the other was given an empire.
The message was received.
We now only have the Zuckerberg type.
by jappgar - Nym vpn and its community show the outside the system tech spirit still lives onby OhioMan2943
- If Julian Assange had taken his privacy principles and built a social network instead of leaking government secrets things might have turned out differently.by ajam1507
- I don't think Assange was overly concerned with privacy, transparency was more his wheelhouse.by dooglius
- > on either side of the privacy spectrum
Oh how quickly we have forgotten:
> We plan to build this the way we've developed WhatsApp: focus on the most fundamental and private use case -- messaging -- make it as secure as possible, and then build more ways for people to interact on top of that, including calls, video chats, groups, stories, businesses, payments, commerce, and ultimately a platform for many other kinds of private services.
March 6 2019; https://web.archive.org/web/20190306191516/https://www.faceb...
Of course, none of that happened. But he did make a big fuss about it.
by tantalor - Apart from Woz, I don't consider the rest of the individuals as nerds at all. Those are loan sharks in the garb of nerds.
Capitalizing the work of others, Cannibalizing smaller entities, creating monopolies, controlling the government and the narrative.
by RaSoJo - Looked for this comment!
All those C*Os and founders are good and successful politicians, not nerds. There was a colossal PR campaign to picture them as nerds for multiple reasons, but most of them never created like nerds would do (with a passion, going deep, enjoying the process & the result).
Politicians become successful due to skills incompatible with nerd mindset. Look at Linus, he could built an empire but he's a git.
by oxag3n - The way of Woz is how you earn the respect of fellow nerds.
The way of Jobs is how you "earn" a billion dollars.
by lioeters - The gentle nerd trope was always a lie (as all tropes were). For every woz you’ve got some egotistical anti-social nerd deriding “bean counters” and “sales guys” because of some deeply held problems dealing with the outside world (especially women).
If you haven’t met someone who is rude and inconsiderate and thinks that’s ok because they believe they are way smarter than they are, then you haven’t worked in tech.
This sort of archetype navel gazing is appealing because you can cast any story you want that way. Buy it doesn’t actually help to understand the complex problems we face, it just lets you blame some “other”.
by kasey_junk - If a critique of bean counters is coming from incels, I hope that a lot more men stop having sex. By your logic, the more men have problems with women, the better society will become.
A lot of society is actively fucked up by hyperoptimization, especially in business.
by Der_Einzige - I feel like, as an industry or social group, we're going through a midlife crisis. There were so many people in tech who I looked up to as a young engineer, and now it feels especially bleak for young people in tech to find role models. But that could just be me being ~40 and despising what so many of these people became at ~60+.
Cleve Moler, the creator of MATLAB, died a few weeks ago. I've had the opportunity to meet him a few times, and despite him being a genuine mathematical genuis, the thing that impressed me so much was how humble he was, how anti-braggadocious. He was like this in person, privately, and also in public. Moler was an early post-WW2 engineer, his cohort is a shrinking class, and I'm worried about those who are taking their place, and then what happens when my generation and the younger replace them.
by Yapping7880 - At the other side of the "midlife crisis" is the self-acceptance and maturity to become that role model.
I'm not saying that to glorify anything. The sentiments in your comment could have been written at any point in human history. Part of that maturity is to lose the ego too. You're not a hero for doing what feels natural, and that is to share what you have been fortunate enough to gather so far.
by sublinear - It seems to me the role of venture capital has changed and is somewhat responsible for this. The obsession with MVPs followed by hyper-growth and then moat-building has warped our relationship with technology. It's driven by a desire for VC funds to "return the fund" with each investment, and increasingly, by a SoftBank approach which requires inundating the market leader with capital that forces out all competition. Technology has been financialized.by piker
- You listen to the Radio Channel you picked. I understand the complaint, though it's like a complain that nerds featured in Cosmopolitan aren't as nerdy as they were.
Musk for me was never a nerd. Many "founders" aren't nerds for me. In the end, I wouldn't classify anyone who is "money" first as a nerd - to me they are businessmen (and businesswomen) in their core.
Want to see "the lost nerds"? Here, on HN there are many very high-profile nerds. People who built the internet and the most popular tools exchanging insight and jokes over posts. Many founders who aren't loud, who aren't about PR.
So - nothing happened. Author looks for them in wrong places.
by xlii - Does anyone consider Musk a nerd? He's more into marketing than GOOGL.by Freedumbs
- Yup, the nerds are still here. They're people like Jeff Geerling, Stefan Hermann, Andreas Spiess, Jan Roetz and many more. They're very visible if you end up on the 'right' side of the algorithm, it's a much more positive side of the internet in general IMHO.
But it's easy to slide back into the fear mongering, engagement bait side if you don't pay really close attention to how you're feeding the algorithm.
by wickedsight - Very much similar thoughts. The examples provided are not nerds, except a few. It is just tech is a lucrative path to make money and it attracts a variety of “interesting” personalities, specifically those that can captivate and persuade masses to invest in them. By all means tech is just a means to an end to such founders. A nerd is someone who is interested in tech for the sake of it, because it is beautiful, not because it will aid drones in killing targets more efficiently and not because it will land a great contract.by sublimefire
- I've definitely met some finance folks who are nerds. Had a very fun conversation with one where we concluded that Culver's Scoopie Tokens are dairy forwards.
I actually agree with the author's evaluation, but the irony is that their post is the first time I heard about this Founders Mafia thing. They're right that last thing we need is more people looking past the sins of the Thiels and Altmans of the world. Maybe this kind of thing works within 100 miles of the Pacific coast. But as a non-SV native still getting used to the culture around here, I see zero risk of this kind of content sowing any fondness for tech CEOs outside of the most tech-brainwormed regions of the world.
by ryukoposting - Agree. I think that the complaint is about the dominating narrative in every radio channel you could possible pick from.
It's similar to the "old Internet" argument: it's still there, but buried in layers and layers of stuff that isn't the real thing.
by artyom - There were people who told me 15 years ago that I’m not like others who go to software engineering universities. Because although I’m a nerd, I can speak about non nerdy things, and I don’t speak about them in non nerd environments. This happened to me many-many times. They were even surprised that I’m in this field.
Not anymore. I haven’t heard this for a while now, and I didn’t change regarding this. But people behave very differently when I say “software developer” recently. Now they think immediately, that I’m rich. Not that I’m a freak nerd. They are not surprised anymore at all.
I experienced this very obviously with something else too. I born in Hungary, but I moved to Austria. There is a huge difference between how people behave with me if I say that I’m from Hungary, than if I say that I’m from Austria when I travel. They immediately recommend me things which are more expensive. The beaches, restaurants, pubs for rich tourists. Not when I say Hungary. That’s the only time when they say to me that something is expensive.
I state openly, that if somebody says that the public perception didn’t change and also the people in this field didn’t change to be more money focused, then those people lying, probably even to themselves. The current discussions about AI make this obvious. Most developers, engineers, founders are fine to ship shit on every single level, if they get the same money for it. They became “developers” only for the money.
“IT crowd” is unimaginable today.
by ruszki - "Nerd" means whatever you want it to mean. I've known people who called themselves nerds because they played d&d and smoked tons of weed. I've known other people who were really focused on technical stuff. I'm sure both types think they're smarter than everyone else, just like most people do.
- I was about to make this point, but with some clarifications:
A nerd, when I was growing up, had to have a "thing", and that thing had to be unfashionable. Being a nerd was not a good thing. You loved your subject despite the stigma. (although later on people loved a subject because of the stigma)
There was a difference between a $subject nerd, and an arsehole/weirdo. To be liked, you needed to hide the nerd streak and learn to interact with people using commonly accepted rules. This is partly why the internet flourished in the 90s because you could be surrounded by other nerds and talk nerd shit.
The downside is that a lot of people felt marginalised, but you were in touch with the "normies", so still had to act like a normal high functioning member of society.
Ruthless buisness types were seen as that (at least in the UK) out to make money, and fuck you if you got in the way.
The problem for us now is, ruthless business types now own all the media, and want to shape the world in their image.
by KaiserPro - I don’t know why you’d think “being interested in nerdy stuff like computers” would somehow translate into virtuous behavior. They seem like entirely different things to me, in the sense that I wouldn’t expect a writer, or a baker, or a chef to have typical ethical behaviors as a group.
“What happened” was just that some people got rich and powerful and their real personalities showed through. This is not a new thing in any sense at all, from Rockefeller to Bill Gates – both “technology entrepreneurs”.
by keiferski - Bill Gates is a great counterexample to the article's premise. Always clearly a nerd, yet led a company that no one loved and many people hated for its strategy of embrace, extend, extinguish.
Post-CEO, he had completely refurbished his image via philanthropy, only to throw it away with the Epstein stuff.
by jnwatson - Virtuous people become doctors, social workers or kindergarten teachers.
People who spend their entire life in front of computers should not be the ones with the keys to society yet here we are.
by TitaRusell