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- Hacker News
- I built a somewhat updated baslin for CD-equipped systemsby queenkjuul
- I used to use brazilfw on my server, it was only a single floppyby mococa
- I wonder why the 486 DX is supported but not the SX. How is the math coprocessing unit necessary for kernel and basic system tools?by buttocks
- as far i remembered SX emulation adds 37kb to the kernelby iberator
- The distro would have to include FP emulation software for the 486 SX, which is a big chunk of code if a floppy disk is all you have to work with.
Also, some system tools need FP support (like df).
by JSR_FDED - Thanks again for being featured here!
Nice to read all of those comments. The project goal is more to learn how to make your own Linux distribution than to fit as much as possible on a floppy. It is fun to have a fully working OS at the end of this learning experience. Floppies are easy to use and just cool :)
There are a lot of better suited distributions for size and memory usage. What makes FLOPPINUX stand out is the complete tutorial to follow and then make your own changes on top of it. Learn and have fun!
by w84death - 2000 Coyote Linux keeping a whole university network going while running from a floppy disk joined the chat.
The idea is cool but anything nowadays has USB ports, there is no suck solution to run from those devices.
by h4kunamata - This is straining my geriatric memory, but I'm pretty sure my first install of Slackware in 1994 involved 18 floppy disksby bandrami
- It was something like that. I can't recall if my first was Yggdrasil or SLS/Slack but it was a stack of floppies in a folder.by a96
- This project has a website that was previously posted on HN[1], I (unsuccessfully) tried to boot it on an actual 486 machine[2], as the site boasts about supporting that.
The version of the SYSLINUX bootloader that it uses had a bug in the fallback path if E820 memory information is not available from the BIOS, and the BIOS on my machine indeed does not support it, or E801 for that matter[3].
I have not gotten around to further testing and fixing the actual issue in SYSLINUX yet (also one of the RAM sticks has sadly developed a parity issue, so I'm stuck at 16M for now). However, I did manage to dig up a newer 486 machine[4][5]. From some testing just this weekend, the BIOS on that one does support INT 15h, AX=E820. I'll have to dig up more memory, but I'm looking forward to another round of trying to get this to boot on the actual hardware, once again :-)
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46866544
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46873814
[3] https://imgur.com/a/GCG9jO7
by st_goliath - “Floppydistros” were a thing back in the day.
When i was 12 or 13 in the very early 2000s i tried to download something called “coyote linux” (from sourceforge iirc) and boot it on an internet cafe pc because i really wanted to try this linux thing.
But i was very nooby and of course it mostly didn’t go anywhere. I have vague memories of maybe getting it to boot, getting a shell and then not know what to do with it.
Fun times :)
by znpy - I remember qnxby dddw
- I used to run tomsrtbt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomsrtbt) from a floppy on an old 486 hooked up to a monitor and keyboard for use as a terminal. Was nice and silent, pretty convenient to be able to just turn the screen on to check irc or whatever.by enneff
- I always had a muLinux disk handy in my computer toolbox. Most of its shell commands came from a simple script ingeniously written by the distro's author. It's been around since the mid-90s, I'd guess.
https://micheleandreoli.org/public/Software/mulinux/mu/html/...
by Crunchified - I guess I made a floppy-based "distribution" of Linux back in the late 90s without even realizing it.
I built it to do network-based disk imaging of fleets of Windows 9X PCs in a K12 school district. I used udpcast[0] to receive the image of a FAT32 volume (as a raw dd of the source drive gzip'd) and would stream it in realtime (decompressing and writing) to the hard disk drive on the clients.
I would run the udpcast sender on a "gold master" PC and stream its drive out to as many clients as I wanted (over 10Base-T Ethernet at the time, but later over faster networks). Since the sending PC's CPU was typically the bottleneck the receiving PCs never had problems falling behind receiving and writing the stream.
The most time consuming part of this "generation" of the tool was writing all zeros to the free space on the "gold master" computer to minimize transferring "slack" space (since I was just using dd and not a filesystem-aware tool). I'd mount up the drive in a Linux distro and dd from /dev/zero to a dummy file on the volume until it was full, then delete the dummy file. (One of Jeff's axioms of computing in play: Never underestimate the power of stupid technology.)
I updated the "distribution" in the early 2000's to support NTFS using the various ntfsprogs tools (ntfsclone, ntfsresize) to support imaging Windows XP machines. It was vastly more efficient than the dd method because it only transferred the used blocks of the filesystem.
Since you could make bootable CDs (and later DVDs) using floppy diskette images as the "boot media" I updated the "distribution" again to support mounting a local optical disk and streaming the image off a bzip2'd ntfsclone image. I even added some silly multi-disk "spanning" capability for images >4.7GB. (It was very janky and involved recombining the image chunks in a temporary partition on the local drive, then imaging the machine from that local copy. The I/O contention of reading / writing from the same drive made that very, very slow.)
Finally, when PXE-capable NICs were more common, I would PXE boot the "distribution" (because PXE easily supported booting floppy disk images) and modified it to pull from HTTP, local optical drive, or udpcast.
I gave up when AHCI became common because I couldn't keep up with making the "modern" Linux kernels work with the various models of PCs I was using. I moved over to a Windows PE-based tool in about 2006 - 2007.
by EvanAnderson - I remember around 2002 running my home router without any hdd on fli4l - a single floppy linux router distribution. I slept in the same room as the router was, hence I wanted a solution without a noisy hdd from that era.
- I remember some people booting firewalls off CD-R's. Burn a new one when it needed an update. Booting with no writable media at all, truly an immutable distro.by a96
- Was the floppy quieter than an HD?by elevation
- Freesco router floppy disk distro in 386 with 2MB of RAM and no hard disk. You could pull the floppy for a secure read only router.by frrlpp
- I used Freesco another single floppy distribution around that time. I tihnk I had in on old pentium 66 MHzby s0rce
- At the same time, I was running a home router without any HDD on LRP, Linux Router Project, which was a distribution from Swansea Linux, and was a floppy image, that decompressed into RAM, and then chrood to the RAM image. Really nifty, except for the 486 machine had a Pentium Overdrive, which was vulnerable to F00F, and we got owned... only to reboot again, and back to our normal image.
Since it had no hard disk, and no monitor, it was quiet, and used little power.
by ForOldHack - There was also tomsrtbt[1], which was a staple in my "rescue" floppy collection. Along with the QNX floppy[2], which came in super handy when using a cyber café or a friend's PC, and you wanted to avoid all the keyloggers and malware.by d3Xt3r
- I wonder why it needs 20MB minimum. Back in the day linux 2.0.33 would boot happily into a GUI and everything on an 8MB machine.
Or maybe I misremember... I know my machine at the time got upgraded to 24MB so maybe it was that machine I was running.
Anyway it's neat this can still be done.
by muppetman - I think you could run 2.0 + X11 in 4MB in a pinch. I know I ran 2.2 + X11 in 5MB on a cast-off i386SX; tight but useable. If I recall right, 2.0 & 2.2 would run in 2MB without X11 (but a GUI like MGR might fit). 8MB was pretty good and 16MB was positively spacious.
Edit: Add: 2MB/4MB boot with a stripped down kernel, not generic.
by kjs3 - I ran it on a 5 meg Tandy, 1 meg permanent on the motherboard and 4 I added.by newsoftheday
- I'm going to guess from the size of the kernel, since for distribution it has to be a fairly 'generic' kernel with just about every driver built into it. If one were to compile a custom 6.14 kernel for a specific hardware target with only 1 model of NIC (3c509b for example), etc, it could be a lot smaller.by walrus01
- I had 2.2.x running on my 386 last year in 4MB. Not enough for a full GUI though but enough to set up TCP/IP and Samba to image a drive over the network.
8MB, at least in an emulator, can run a basic Xterm but not a lot else (though it'll happily run as a remote X frontend for a more powerful machine over Ethernet, it was fun to see it try to render Gimp 3 running on my desktop lol)
My 16MB 486 had no issues with a full IceWM session (this was kind of my hacked version of BasicLinux which itself was built on a ~2000 version of Slackware)
by queenkjuul - You could run X11 in 4Mb at one point, although I rather wished I didn't.by dcminter
- This floppy decompresses the entire initrd image into memory at boot, which "wastes" memory compared a proper install on a HDD. You can also lower memory requirements further by enabling swap.
A floppy distro (especially one relying on a compressed initrd) will inherently require more memory. And I suspect the maker of this distro is using a different definition of "minimum" than we would have used back in the 90s (closer to "recommended").
However, it looks like modern linux kernels just require more memory; The kernel binary is certainly larger, floppinux is spending an entire 888KB on it's very stripped down modern linux (doesn't even have networking enabled), while older floppy distros using 2.2/2.4 kernels keep it under 512KB (with networking, and a bunch of other features.
by phire