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- Hacker News
- “Systematic deliberate targeting of children as policy”.
I don’t see why this is controversial.
Pro-Palestine people have seen the overwhelming field reports that prove this and Pro-Israel people actually are in favor of targeting these kids because they might grow resentful of Israel and join Hamas.
by henry2023 - > Pro-Israel people actually are in favor of targeting these kids because they might grow resentful of Israel and join Hamas.
I know many in that camp, and this sounds bananas to me.
by talon8635 - Just curious to know what is acceptable proportionate response for:
1. What was done on October 7? Assuming that some kind of response from Israel was acceptable.
2. Against Israel for what Israel is doing now? Assuming that Israel is over reacting.
Maybe if we can come with a framework for what is acceptable, world can force certain behavior.
Edited for formatting.
- Oct 7th was a border security failure. The appropriate response was reinforcing the border and ensuring that gazans cant escape. Letting the gazans out was one of the biggest security blunders of the 21st century. Israel knew the government of gaza wants israel wiped off the map, this stuff isnt a surprise or anything. Israel absolutely had the capability of keeping the gazans in, they blew it. I see that this is close to victim blaming, but the thing is that both sides are victims here, all the arguments involve victim blaming. Israel already tried occupying gaza, they knew it doesnt work and would just make things worse.
Arguments can certainly be made about the hostages, but I think its clear that the gazan war was not really about the hostages.
by HDThoreaun - It's always analysis of Israel's response and zero soul searching on the Palestinian side.by tonks
- The excuse will be that these are just casualties of war and we'll shrug it off and move on, whereas the imaginary beheaded babies from October 7 are unforgivable and excuse any action on Israel's behalf.
Boycott. Divestment. Sanctions. Use any legal means to stop funding this genocide and make Israel's leadership accountable. We all love our comfy white collar jobs and would rather not rock the boat, but not doing the little we can do (e.g. stop using Israeli suppliers and services) makes us supporters.
by isgb - Anybody surprised at this point? In any case, this is the same UN that has accepted israel, and israel lobbied US vetoes to Palestine entry into the UN again and again, even then a broad majority of the world have voted in favor of granting membership, does any of what they do or pretend to represent matters anymore?
- At this point, leaders should create a new security council excluding the permanent SC members, set rules around voting on issues where every country has an equal voice, create enforcement frameworks and then invite the SC members with equal footing.
The proposed reforms led by the likes of Brazil, Germany and India are not getting a lot of traction. Maybe if they included everyone else they'd have a better chance.
by cassianoleal - This is really sickening - if North Korea or any other less connected country did this, you would quickly see their national (tech) companies being sanctioned by the west. I never understood how a country like Israel, given the history of its own tribe, can themselves become so gruesome and have a hugely state-supported private spy-tech sector that supports the worst autocrates in the world as long as the money flows to them.by mentalgear
- Many many countries got sanctioned into oblivion or color-revolutionized into US-loyalty for far far less (often just for not being aligned with the US).
It is even more sickening and outrageous if you view it through that lens.
by mfru - Israel has had a hand up each US politician’s ass since the 1980s. Israel owns all of them.by iJohnDoe
- First thing coming into mind is the number of companies and individuals blocking Russians in the beginning of the war before any sanctions out of virtue signalling.by tdiff
- Hopefully Israel will have lost American support in a generation or so, who cares what happens to them after that.by jalapenoj
- There's only one honorable response, and it couldn't be simpler: A complete and immediate arms and dual-use technology embargo of Israel, combined with more general sanctions. South Africa should be the model: Just ostracize them as much as possible. Say what you will about Russia, but Israel can never be self-sufficient, and China (justifiably) appears to despise them, so sanctions and embargoes would be substantially more effective in correcting their behavior.
This will never happen, and we know why. It's disgusting. The "enlightened," "liberal" west's principles have never been more clearly on display: "Why should we concern ourselves with the wholesale slaughter of innocent children in a pent-up captive civilian population? Not our problem."
by A_D_E_P_T - I think the why has more to do with capture of our media and politicians through collusion, bribery and blackmail. Epstein, etc.by _menelaus
- See also this This American Life episode, where doctors visiting Gaza saw a disturbing number of children with direct gunshot wounds to the head and chest: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/859/transcriptby tastyface
- Had seen a testimony of an European doctor coming from Gaza saying that each week or month the hospitals where flooded with young males coming from the humanitarian food queues with a different gunshoot type. There was the month of the knees, the month of head gunshoots, and the month of the young men flooding the hospitals with their testicles blown off, all because they wanted to pick some food for their families.by pvaldes
- If you try very hard, you can understand the reason for bombardment, at least from the BEGINNING. Surely, not the reason for killing these poor children.
But I never came to better conclusion about West Bank annexation that that it is pure imperialism. Basically what russians are trying in Ukraine. I'm still not quite sure what is the purpose, there is really not enough land or it's all just bs?
I wonder if this ends up Flagged.
by hsuduebc2 - The west bank annexation happened in response to Jordanian aggression (who were joining with Egypt, with whom Jordan had a mutual defense pact, in a war I would say was ambiguously instigated by Israel/Egypt).
Israel holds the territory with its army, and claims that neither Jordan (nor any country) owned it beforehand, which is a better-founded argument than some people may expect - the west bank was originally, by england, designated as a palestinian - not jordanian - state, arab leadership rejected it (to also reject an israeli state), england withdrew from it, and jordan occupied it, with very very limited international recognition.
It's a pretty crazy history, I hope I got it right, please fact-check me.
by gershy - > Basically what russians are trying in Ukraine.
Not sure it's the same thing. Russians want political and territorial control in Ukraine, not expelling Ukrainians to resettle the place with "ethnic Russians". Israel wants to conquer the whole of Palestine (West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem) to replace the native population with its own. There is no possible equal integration of Palestinians or their descendants into a Jewish state, not in a thousand years, and by design.
by throw310822 - If your state finds that it needs to murder children in its defense then it is a failed state and should be refactored by its citizenry, immediately.
Because that which war criminals bring to their victims, they will also - ALWAYS - bring back to their own state.
Prosecute your war criminals. Now!
by aa-jv - Perfect speech, I wish hamas and their 70% supporters in gaza could really hear itby aristofun
- The under-18 population in the Gaza strip is roughly 47% (according to PCBS). So if deaths fell randomly across the population, children would be ~47% of the dead. They are ~30%. Also the numbers pipeline again runs through Hamas and there is the fact that the UN Council has passed more condemnatory resolutions on Israel than on any other single state (more than Syria, Myanmar, Yemen etc). I am surprised I don't see more nuance on HN.by borolaj
- you've had an account for four years, and _this_ is your comment?by prpl
- Deaths should not fall randomly across the population unless you’re committing war crimes.by amatheus
- Maybe to spark curious conversation, when a world power seems to be supportive of actions that an international body considers negative, what structure can help resolve these? It does seem like UN is unable to really make a dent here.
- Maybe it would help if other countries focused on the immediate problem: rescuing people from a dangerous situation. They should be volunteering to take refugees.
Sadly, it's unlikely because they care more about keeping immigrants out.
by skybrian - > when a world power seems to be supportive of actions that an international body considers negative, what structure can help resolve these?
Apply the Apartheid South Africa treatament. Gather the larger number possible of complying members, and apply a coordinated boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign to put pressure in the party engaged in genocide, ethnic cleansing or other abhorrent actions.
by Qem - I think this is a good argument why a singular world power is actually a bad thing - because no matter how much it will promote itself as the "good guys" (and of course it will), at the end of the day, it will push through its own interests by that dominance - whereas if power is more evenly distributed, countries might be more willing to agree to common, formalized rules and a "neutral" body to evaluate them.
I think the emergence of nation states with democratic institutions and a strong system of law is actually a hopeful precedent here. Somehow we got from a world of fiefdoms and lords that literally stood above the law to states with checks and balances. (Yes, we're sliding back towards the "fiefdoms" situation right now, but we're still far better than things used to be)
So I'm gonna be a starry-eyed idealist and keep the hope up that we might archive the same on a global level at some point.
by xg15 - What kind of answer are you expecting? The only “structure” that matters is power, and the only power that matters is the power to force and destroy. Everything else is derived from that, not the other way round.by p-e-w