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- Hacker News
- The photos on that page look good, with detectable in focus and out of focus areas. Looking at this equipment page, https://github.com/geerlingguy/youtube#equipment he's using full frame or aps-c cameras. The exif reported resolution on one of the images suggests they might be frames from the 4k video.by kristianp
- The article never does resolve WHY it was slow in linux :(by dmitrygr
- The video mentions that drivers were needed to get the full speed on Windows, and that the Realtek Linux drivers didn't compile on a modern kernel. So it's probably software.
Realtek makes some pretty affordable networking chips but their Linux drivers can be a real gamble. Either it works out of the box or you're in for years of messing around.
by jeroenhd - 10g copper is notoriously power hungry. That’s why 90%+ of my 10g ports are SFPs.by hdgvhicv
- In a way, I kinda don't get the idea of an expansion card for ethernet, rather than just a dongle. Specifically, as in this case, where it sticks out from the side of the chassis.
If I'm on the go, I'll have to take it out of the chassis while it's in my bag so I don't damage it. In that case, it's easier to have a regular USB-C card in that port, and toss a dongle in my bag instead of the expansion card.
If I'm not on the go, I'm at a desk, and I'd still rather plug in a dongle than regularly swap an expansion card.
I'm not saying you'd never want the expansion card, but it feels pretty niche.
by kelnos - There’s nothing to “get”. The circuit doesn’t fit inside the slot for expansion cards. You could plug in a dongle instead, but then you’d have a big hole in your laptop with a cable sticking out. Or you could just get a wider laptop bag. They make them in multiple sizes, you know.by db48x
- I don't get it either.
If it had a hinged or expanding[0] ethernet port so it could sit flush with the chassis when not in use it would make a lot more sense.
[0] It's easier to show what I mean https://www.reddit.com/r/TechnologyPorn/comments/hvlxep/orig...
by RobotToaster - Isn’t that kind of most things Framework? Sure, a replaceable color bezel is fun, but pretty niche.by alex43578
- I'd also add that at a fixed location/desk, having a dock with ethernet is also very normal.
Anyway it is probably just there to demonstrate the possibilities to consumers. What if a lower profile standard for networking gets popularized?
by NewJazz - A lot of people use their laptop as a desktop replacement and kinda leave it in one spot or only move it between two spots (home desk/office desk) rather than as an actually portable take anywhere use anywhere situationby getcrunk
- Before Jeff first talk about this, I got one of those cheap Ethernet adapters (with the new realtek chip) on aliexpress for ~55€. It works really well, but I don't have USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 hardware, so I only get ~4Gbps out of it. But I'm pretty happy to break the 1G barrier, and the adapter will be useful in the future when I get better hardware; and I don't have to go through a 2.5Gbps or 5Gbps step.by Aissen
- Unlike "5 Gb/s" USB, which in reality is 4 Gb/s USB, so a 5 Gb/s Ethernet interface cannot reach its maximum speed on a 5 Gb/s USB, the "10 Gb/s" USB is really 10 Gb/s, i.e. the difference between its real speed and 10 Gb/s is small enough to be negligible.
The same is true for 10 Gb/s Ethernet, whose speed is not exactly 10 Gb/s, but the difference from 10 Gb/s is also negligible.
Therefore, you do not need a 20 Gb/s USB to reach the maximum speed with a 10 Gb/s Ethernet interface, a 10 Gb/s USB port is good enough.
The overhead of data framing on USB is slightly higher than on Ethernet, so the maximum throughput on an USB 10 Gb/s Ethernet interface is a little lower than for a PCIe Ethernet NIC, but the difference is small enough to not matter. Usually other factors, like bad device drivers or inefficient programs, can cause much greater variations in Ethernet throughput.
The 9.4 Gb/s throughput obtained in TFA is perfectly reasonable when taking into account the packet overheads, which make impossible to reach 10 Gb/s for user data, regardless of hardware. A 20 Gb/s USB interface could not provide any serious improvement over that.
by adrian_b - I think most people do not have 10g UTP infrastructure they want to exploit, but many people do have 2 computers they'd like to connect together at high speed, and these people are far better served by just connecting those computers' Thunderbolt ports together. With nothing other than an admittedly pricey cable, you get 10, 20, or 40gbps links depending on the endpoints. That's the "something faster" that will work well for most people.by jeffbee
- Only getting 95% of the book rated speed? I'm OK, that's still a shitload-and-a-half of speed.by ggm
- He only gets 4-5Gbps in the other direction.by delamon
- The point was how fussy it was to get that 95% instead of something closer to 75%.by Dylan16807
- Every PCIe 10G ethernet card I've seen has a heatsink on it, sometimes covering the entire card or even have little fans on the heatsink.
Expecting it to work full time in a laptop is a bit of a stretch of the heat dissipation budget.
Also, the laptop he is working has the AMD FP8 chipset - depending on how the ports are setup, he might only get 10G USB, if the ports are allocated to video instead.
by RachelF - So the entire Framework card's casing should have been copper?by polski-g
- I was doing a comparison of 10G ethernet NICs just yesterday and ChatGPT was insistent that they are scorching regardless of actual throughput. Unless you manually downshift and upshift the communication rate.
I'm having second thoughts about having one of those dongles on my desk all day for the same reason wireless charging seems wasteful.
by randusername - Yeah, 10Gb ethernet runs hot. I just rewired the house with 10Gb (we have 8Gb FTTP) and it's kind of upsetting how hot my Thunderbolt dock gets.by jfb
- New chips from Realtek burn < 2W for the chip and < 3-4W for the board: https://www.servethehome.com/cheap-10gbe-realtek-rtl8127-nic...by timschmidt
- I chuckled at 10G wired ethernet on a laptop. I mean in a docking station? Sure that seems reasonable. But fun none the less.
I appreciate the USB-C nature of the Framework's expansion ports, it does make real the entire reason that USB was created in the first place, hot plug slots. Still, I (and others) pointed out to Intel early on that using Ethernet with a specific packet type would be cheaper and just as fast (which the ATA over Ethernet folks proved), but then you wouldn't get the 'certification tax' that the USB consortium extracts. :-).
Cynicism aside, the design issues suggest that it might make sense in future laptops to have heat spreaders around the plug in port, although that makes things thicker and people obsess over thinness.
by ChuckMcM - Ethernet comes with a completely different set of social norms, like not having a master and slave device.by trumpdong
- The problem with docking stations is they're more expensive than an ethernet adapter. I tried to use a few 2.5+Gbps dongles with my laptop(s) to avoid spending $400 on another Caldigit dock (TS4; I already have a TS3 with 1Gbps ethernet).
Unfortunately, all 3 USB-C dongles I tried had significantly worse performance than the built-in 1 gig ethernet on the dock, apparently using the RTL8156 chipset which is known to be unstable.
I've got a 4th dongle on the way to try next! If I buy enough of these things I'll have spent more than just buying the right dock in the first place.
by rconti - >I chuckled at 10G wired ethernet on a laptop.
Back in the early days of wireless networking I had my laptop configured with the wireless and wired networks bonded. I want to say that was 2Mbps on the wireless, so if I was doing a big transfer I could walk over to a wired port in my house and plug in to get 100Mbps.
by linsomniac - Others comments already mentioned multimedia, but for example where I work we have some development board and prototypes with 10g ethernet, but most developers have a laptop rather than a fixed station. Turns out smallish (but overly expensive) thunderbolt 10g adapters can be used for testing and even reach full thoughput in many cases.by anthonj
- Future proofing. Websites nowadays load tens of megabytes for a simple news page. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the future a website consumes 500+ megabytes on the initial page load. That will take 40 seconds on a 100 megabit link and 400 milliseconds on a 10 gigabit link.
Try to load any modern website on dial-up. The connection will likely timeout before a full page load.
by retired - I wish they would just have direct PCIe lanes. For most of the cards doing those speeds USB is just unnecessary overhead
- If you work with media having a 10G connection on a laptop isn't all that absurd. In fact slow network speeds are the main reason why people have to use things like Thunderbolt instead of using a NAS (e.g. offloading data on a film set).by atoav
- > I chuckled at 10G wired ethernet on a laptop. I mean in a docking station? Sure that seems reasonable. But fun none the less.
What difference does a docking station make? Sometimes you want to spend a minute or two setting up your laptop in a more serious way, and that's just as reasonable with or without a docking station.
by Dylan16807