Join the discussion
Write your take first — we'll ask for email only when you're ready to publish.
- Hacker News
- Software has always been marketing! Because most software straight up doesn't work or does what has been advertised lmaoby mawadev
- Yeah, but maybe only for the visible (productized) layer of softwareby KolibriFly
- software has always been marketing. You have to sell things for doing money. Does soemone remember in 90's, when star trek was very famous os2- warp ? was not that marketing ? nothing new under the sun ... we say here .by pippoit
- just seen that someone posted my essay here, and just wanted to say thank you for the opinions. there is a lot of disagreement and lot of good debate, which motivates me to write an update on this.
Tereza
- > A non-mathematician can't even speak the language of mathematics. But in a lot of fields, people can evaluate your work with their own senses. They don't need any other apparatus.
This is an interesting point, but I think the reality is that in a lot of fields, the consumption experience is the only thing that's easy to judge.
People have always had opinions on things like the interface, the work flow, the latency, the landing page (as the article mentions). AI or not.
It is still hard to implement, and I think you'll find far fewer people with good opinions about implementation. As long as that remains true, SWE exists.
Whether the job market and salaries and all that remain, well, that is indeed dependent on whether people are vibe-coding away all their SaaS subscriptions and margins drop.
by wxw - This would probably became very true if we would stay with the current prices of 'AI'.
Will we? Open AI is not profitable. Anthropic says that they may have profitable quarter. If they will raise prices will it still be the case? If you can 'vibe code your taxes app' but it will require constant fixes every month and those fixes will cost you 50$ in tokens and it will not be bullet proof, does it makes sense anymore? Maybe just pay 50$ for subscription to similar software? Maybe Chinese companies will keep low prices and it will cost 2$ dollars instead of 50, but that only works if you are doing that to 'vibe code' your scheduling/to do app. If you are any serious company you have regulations and GDPA and ISO and you cannot sent you financial and customer company to Chinese deepseek provider.
And software need constant upkeep. OS update, API changes, libraries get obsolete, build system does not work anymore... etc. This is very apparent for me every time I am doing changes to my Flutter mobile app need an update: I basically need to spin up environment from scratch, then update half of packages, then update all APIs fro those packages because of changes and when I finally do the change, pipeline breaks and I cannot sign the android release. Last time I just gave up on that. Non software people think you can just install Claude and prompt your app. Which is true. But then things break. Data disappear. You do not have backup. Licence changes and you can't use new version of some tool. Binaries got renamed. APIs disappear. Domain is not reachable anymore. And so on and on and on...
Software companies are forced to use 'AI' too so speed of breaking changes will increase and you either have to pickup on those or pay someone to do that for you regardless if this will be 'AI' provider and tokens usage or SaaS.
In 90 there were people in my country selling PC parts on every corner. No there is maybe one or two in entire city and I did not visit none in maybe 10 years. There were a thing because you could just buy parts and build your new system. You still can but now you can just order online.
So sure 'vibe coding' is a thing now but I am not convinced it will be a thing in 10-20 years. Maybe it will be online service that will automatically write an application for you based on specification for few $ but as a user you expecting an outcome and do not want to be bothered by npm and node version necessary for that.
by npodbielski - I’m curious about the mental model of people who think ai is extremely subsidised. This view is strange because GLM released a few weeks ago and it is confidently better than say GPT 5.
I think you are in for a rude shock - your expectation that there will come a reckoning where people are forced to content real prices of AI.. will never happen. It won’t.
by simianwords - The billions companies spend on awareness, converson, retention etc will only grow and non vibe-coded software will continue to be the input (doesnt "become" marketing) into a very sophisticated go-to-market machine occupied by various players ( brands, publishers, agencies etc). Still this is directionally interesting if only aimed at SMBs SaaS.by ingvay7
- I find it really interesting that SWEs think this is a good essay. As an experienced marketer, I really disagree. It’s stupid.
The barriers to entry / “respect” angle is a weird one to go in. Obviously people will think they can do marketing if the main, qualified activity you use as an example is… /choosing colours on a landing page/. Marketers have way more important, difficult and “high-barrier-to-entry” tasks to do in order to succeed - and this suggests Tereza is totally unaware of them.
So is she trying to say that software engineers are being treated by the market like marketers?
“Writers, designers, and marketers all have wider pay distributions because the barrier to entry is low and the work is visible: anyone can try, everyone has an opinion, and only the proven best command a premium.” My sweet summer child, have you ever MET a software engineer? What the fuck do you think they do!?
Her paradox of choice implies that she’s ACTUALLY talking about software /companies/… but none of this is new information. Marketers are trained in positioning, segmentation and “finding the fit” - she doesn’t even make a point here!
The middle class of software won’t disappear. Again, she’s equating SaaS to be “all software” (as a marketer she should know better).
And finally, the most critical and undeniable evidence that Tereza is by NO means the “very decent marketer” she calls herself… “Sell services, not software”.
What? Functionally and positionally they are identical. One sells OUTCOMES. It doesn’t matter, as a marketer, whether your product is a service or a software. The product is just ONE of the 4Ps we’re trained to think about when making tactical decisions. Let alone strategic ones.
I’d really strong encourage anybody reading this interested in marketing to read a bit of Mark Ritson. This is the most irritating essay I’ve read in months.
by _fw - Wholly agree.by mikeaskew4
- Nice write-up... but with strong opinions that seem plausible, yet are highly debatable.
"The rise of the long tail" -> To my knowledge the 'long tail' was years ago a subject of many scientific business studies. The conclusion: proof was never found for this economic theory. And yes, the book of Chris Anderson (20 years ago!) was an attractive read that also seems plausible.
"The barrier to entry for software has fallen." -> This is the marketing mantra since 4GL and IDEs. Visual coding IDEs, so coding without knowing coding never worked out as marketers promised, Same with nocode things years later.
Truth is programming in a natural language is very hard, that's why we have programming languages. And the hard part was never programming, but problems solving and gathering requirements before programming. Or during programming if you are fan of the agile community. AI/ML technology is a great tool for solving some problems, but certainly many problems can not be solved with AI for coming years. AI can not replace people, but people who do not add much value are, have been, and always will be the first to encounter technology progress.
by runningmike - Very, very good essay. I'd like to add one thing to the argument. It used to be the case that your software itself could be a sound moat; that's no longer the case except toward the high end, where vibecoding fails due to complexity. Now, sound moats are e.g. your data, your regulatory advantages, your established customer base, etc., and software is increasingly just a fungible component -- increasingly like, say, accounting: a back-office task to tick off.
- I mostly agree, though I'd phrase it slightly differently: software is becoming less of a moat by itself but not necessarily less importantby KolibriFly
- Take away the maximalist points and this post rings true.
> It is now possible to vibecode your own SaaS instead of paying someone $50/month for theirs.
I have yet to see proof of this playing out this way.
You do have highly competent engineers vibing big things in record time and you have noobs one-shotting a prototype with Claude and then getting stuck.
I remain convinced that LLMs are an amplifier and you can't turn a zero in to something useful.
This of course barely changes how LLMs shifted much of programming from a mystical realm to top bike shedding territory, as Tereze here points out.
by gherkinnn - Having see what terminal vibecoding looks like (to the point where customers say "fix your app" during renewal conversations), I don't think this is likely to happen. There is definitely selection pressure being applied to SaaS companies and I would not expect people not directly responsible (PMs, sales, etc.) to be willing to accept responsibility for technical outcomes; after all they are product, not software experts.
It is possible this leads to a decrease in salary (and positions) but I do not believe the social commentary will pan out in the manner the author proposes. The people who most argue for vibe coding will themselves never accept responsibility for the technical outcomes.
by mgh95 - The people saying "anyone can build software now" often seem to mean "anyone can generate code now"... which is not quite the same thingby KolibriFly
- > The people who most argue for vibe coding will themselves never accept responsibility for the technical outcomes.
This is right, and don’t think this isn’t all partially fueled by spite. I’m not sure if engineers understand how much they’ve been simultaneously reviled/revered by non-technical people. They see this as a Prometheus moment. They would love to vibecode a mess and make the engineers deal with the details.
by thr0w