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- Hacker News
- I think this results vary depending on whether or not a person exercises regularly. After just six months of training, older adults who do not exercise regularly may see significant changes, but those who exercise regularly are likely to see only minor changes.by hasudon7171
- > “High-intensity training reduced fat and maintained lean mass […] though changes were small and not clinically meaningful compared with exercise of lower intensity…”
High intensity does border on leading to injury — just making the wrong move — and you’re back to zero intensity?
by xtiansimon - In my experience, there's a middle ground. Don't go for 1 to 3 rep maxes. Go for 4-6 rep maxes for a set and then follow it by set to failure in the 8-12 rep range. That gives a good mix of both intensity and volume while still reducing risks of injury as the weights are heavy but not crazy heavy to compromise form.by busymom0
- Calisthenics is a really easy way to push intensity at basically 0 risk of injury. They're all compound and depending on the variation could require high reps, but between push ups, pull-ups, squats, their numerous variations, and accessory work, I would challenge anyone to actually injure themselves while also being able to push to true technical failure.by netbioserror
- There are plenty of high intensity activities with low risk of injury. Rowing and swimming come to mind.
I think the bigger problem is that, as far as I can tell, very few people have the appropriate personality type for high intensity exercise. Most people seem to experience it just as pointless discomfort.
- You just need to build back up to high intensity training over time by consistently exercising and pushing yourself. Injury comes from pushing yourself too hard too soon. Unless you are approaching 50 (and even then) you can recover most of your fitness from your early 20s.by vmg12
- No joke. I go to the gym a couple times a week so that I'll maintain mobility and won't injure myself as I age - unfortunately 80% of my injuries come from the gym.by ryandvm
- Really depends on how you define high-intensity.
To build muscle, you need to push yourself to a limit. You can reduce the weight and increase the repetitions. This approach is just as effective and lowers the risk of injury.
by baxtr - This is specifically cardio. High intensity interval training can be safe, for example, air bike, battle ropes, etc. High intensity running does have higher injury risk.by mzhaase
- High intensity does border on leading to injury
Where are you getting this? The study was about various intensities of cardio - I didn't see it noted, but I'm guessing the high- and medium-intensity groups were on a treadmill, elliptical, or similar. Pretty small chance of injury for the durations they mention, especially as the subjects were monitored while exercising.
And I'm not really surprised by the study - building lean muscle mass takes resistance training, which wasn't part of the study. The study results appear to be inline with what was common knowledge/experience.
And if you're injuring yourself regularly during weight training or other gym activities, I'd suggest you might hire a good coach/trainer for guidance and programming, because that shouldn't happen either.
by alistairSH - Insulin -- the fat storing hormone. The opposite hormones -- cortisol and adrenaline mobilize fat tissue for burning. Chronic cortisol leads to fat gain because cortisol receptors become desensitized. Spiking cortisol in short bursts is better than long bouts of elevated cortisol.
- From the Conclusion:
“High-intensity training reduced fat and maintained lean mass in apparently healthy older adults, though changes were small and not clinically meaningful compared with exercise of lower intensity and considering measurement error.”
I didn’t read the whole paper (didn’t see any reason to after seeing this). But the title seems to be contradicted by this conclusion.
by leephillips - Anaerobic exercise, which typically is done with weightlifting, converts muscles to a huge anabolic gland. Do squats/deadlifts with good technique and reap lifetime benefits. Add aerobic as habit, like use feet/bicycle and stairs at every occasion and you will be fine. First order effects are better shape and stamina, that lead to second order like better cognition, mood and even less cancer.by tsoukase
- > Healthy older adults (n = 123, average age 72.0 years, body mass index 25.8 kg/m2) completed three 45-min supervised exercise sessions per week for 6 months. Participants were randomised to treadmill-based moderate-intensity training (n = 45), or high-intensity interval training (n = 41) or a low-intensity active control condition (n = 37), with individualised heart-rate prescription. Dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry was used to quantify body composition at baseline, and at 3 and 6 months.
ok they didn't even include light/moderate weight lifting as another control, so this is a fairly poorly executed study
basically it comapres hiit with treadmill walking in which case yes, it's slightly more useful, but hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways
by yawnxyz - > "but hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways"
Please do explain this.
Technically weight lifting (muscle hypertrophy) also causes "damage" but in a controlled an beneficial way.
by jr3592 - light/moderate weight lifting is not "low-intensity active control condition" then?by danesparza
- "hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways"
Oh! I didn't know about this. Are there any references you could quote?
by fsloth - The hyper rationalist cult on HN has created a race to see who will be the first to claim "this is a fairly poorly executed study".
It really impresses the crowd here if you ignore all limitations introduced by reality, and fail to clearly even assert the requirements that would result in an "adequately executed study."
Bonus points if you finish your shallow skepticism by redirecting the conversation in the direction of your original preheld biases.
Double bonus points if you fail to link to a study that both supports that preheld bias and meets your own standards for how studies should be conducted.
by justradition - 'were small and not meaningful' why is this on the front page of HN?by lol8675309
- The perennial question.
Well, at least it’s spurred intellectually curious discussion.
by tryagainian - Some move all their lives and keep adapting their movements as their age. Others did not move much through the lives and when they hit 60s and they start loosing the mobility, doctors suggest for them to move more, if anything. If you never hiked and you start hiking in your 60s for health reasons. Pick up short flat trails.by javier_e06
- One thing that I think gets looked past in studies like this is the “noob gains” effect. These participants are healthy adults but not highly trained. It’s pretty well known, in cycling at least, that hard interval training is super effective for untrained people or people coming back from a break, but the gains plateau relatively quickly, and the stress of doing this kind of work is hard to sustain for long periods. Another notable thing is that they are doing 45 minute sessions regardless of intensity, in the real world it’s common for lower intensity sessions to be longer, and for those sessions to be a foundation on which higher intensity sessions are carefully added.by fiveg
- > It’s pretty well known, in cycling at least, that hard interval training is super effective for untrained people or people coming back from a break, but the gains plateau relatively quickly, and the stress of doing this kind of work is hard to sustain for long periods.
This is 100% experience with both cycling and running, and something I worked out on my own early on, prior to the advent of smartphones and even talking to anyone who knew anything.
I enjoy sprinting, both running and cycling, but it’s mostly something I do to regain my endurance ability after a break. Two two weeks of high intensity interval training, and then I’m able to sustain moderate intensity jogging for 30+ plus again, or an hour cycling.
by tryagainian - This study followed everyone for 6 months so they probably got past that factor.by bluGill
- I've read a looot of physiology studies about running, and the same dynamics hold true there. This is a flaw (IMO) of of the whole "Norwegian 4x4 protocol" you hear parroted around by biohacker/longevity influencer online, of course with 0 nuance or context of the underlying study and its limitationsby jcdavis
- > average age 72.0 years, body mass index 25.8
Careful before you assume you'll have the same outcomes. That's a group of people who are already fairly light compared to the American populace, and likely are suffering from sarcopenia of sorts and have low potential to gain much more muscle. (Protein absorption, hormone profile)
> Dietary intake was assessed using a 3-day food diary at baseline and analysed for total energy intake (kcal) and macronutrient intake (kcal) by a dietician dietary analysis software (Foodworks, Xyris®, AUS).
So this is both recall + ad libitum. The change could be due to hormone profile, the exercise itself, inadvertent changes in consumption, inadvertent changes in NEAT.
by maerF0x0 - > NEAT
non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis?
I’m a bit of a fitness enthusiast, but not enthusiastic enough to have come across all the acronyms.
by tryagainian - Erm that's higher than the healthy BMI range, so not "fairly light". >25 is considered overweight.by froobius
- So warning about super-high intensity workouts. For a good while I would sprint hard as possible up 8 flights of stairs everyday instead of taking the elevator. I would do this multiple times per day (3,4 sometimes 5) with no warm-up/cool-down . Each time I would try to push for a PR, figuring might as well go for it! One day, after about a year of doing this, I noticed my heart rate at the top felt a little off. I tested with my watch and it said I was in AFIB. I was able to get back to normal sinus rhythm via getting zapped at the ER, but ever since then if I push too hard (usually on longer runs, going all out) I end up back in AFIB. Though it will reset the next morning.
This could be pure coincidence, but I would recommend doing proper warm-up and cool-down before going all out with HIIT. FYI I'm in my 40's.
by proee - > FYI I'm in my 40's.
Bad news: Age is a risk factor for AFIB. The older you get, the more likely it is to happen.
by AnimalMuppet