Discussion summary
Emily Bender's 'stochastic parrots' metaphor critiques LLMs as pattern generators without true understanding. Discussions highlight the distinction between token prediction and comprehension.
What the discussion says
- Some argue LLMs are just token generators, emphasizing their statistical nature.
- Others believe LLMs can perform tasks indicating some form of understanding.
- A few compare LLMs to symbolic systems that don't require understanding.
“LLMs generate text by statistically predicting likely sequences.”
“Most human activities involve things not easily described by tokens.”
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- Hacker News
- Personally, I've always read that paper as a political criticism of industry and industrialized research and capitalism. After decades in academic (and industrialized research) I've learned that smart people can write convincing takedowns of things they hate- and those takedowns, due to being well written, often punch above their weight in terms of impact on the community.
I think this paper would have been best split off from the conjoined criticism of environmental effects (which could have been its own paper, but not one published by Google, since their leadership's fundamental beliefs disagree with the paper's environmental impact premise. And the remaining part on text models could have been a bit more focused on the technical issues associated with statistical text processing and meaning, rather than criticism of the power structure that is loosely associated with the current AI push.
by dekhn - I paid a bit of attention to this paper and the phrase 'stochastic parrots' when it came out and i thought this was worth saying and doing at that time. their suggestions about financial and environmental costs are worth studying, their concern about carefully evaluating datasets to feed to the model rather than feeding the entire internet is fully justified. so - to everyone saying this was a bad paper; if you have actually read the paper then please list a few criticisms. all i have seen is "oh this wasn't that good of a paper" or "can't believe how bad this paper was".by dwa3592
- Her language consistently defines LLMs in negative terms like “synthetic text extruder” but she claims she’s not trying to denigrate it. What’s missing for me are similar terms from her about how humans create sentences and thoughts. Judging by the state of the internet humans are quite capable of making shit up to argue their point (see latest Fox News apology). She talks about sycophantic AI but give me a car battery and some cables and I can train a sycophantic human (no I can’t but there are people who can). She’s pretty much a walking counter argument for her own claims.
- Bender's linked May 12, 2026 post "Frequently Unasked Questions", https://medium.com/@emilymenonbender/stochastic-parrots-freq... , was a better read.
- > when OpenAI imposed ChatGPT on the world...
OpenAI offered ChatGPT to the world. A large, monied cross-section of the world had yet to throw its capital behind the Large Language Model technology that made the ChatBot possible. While it is fair to see AI development now as a global imposition, OpenAI did not have the agency as a 2022 startup to impose on the scale we see now.
by waffletower - > With the octopus thought experiment, I initially had told the story in terms of a dolphin, because dolphins clearly are intelligent animals. My co-author on that paper, Alexander Koller, said it should be an octopus, because first of all, the environment that octopuses live in is much more distinct from where people live. It makes the metaphor more vivid, that the octopus is just feeling these pulses in the cable and has no way to look at what the people are looking at.
On a completely tangential sidenote, octopusses are actually very very intelligent: https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/octopuses-keep-surprising-us-...
- Here is what Jeff Dean said about the firing at the time: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f2kYWDXwhzYnq8ebVtuk9CqQ...by ayhanfuat
- > in part because Google fired two of the authors, Timnit Gebru
I remember being angry about this situation when I first saw it on social media, until I read the details: This person submitted a list of demands to her employer and said that if they weren’t met, she quit. Google wasn’t going to meet her demands so they considered it acceptance of her resignation. There has been a movement trying to debate whether it was a firing or resignation ever since.
The original paper they published gets recirculated every year or two as some landmark history of AI safety, but as other commenters have noted it wasn’t really a great paper nor was it groundbreaking at the time. If not for the controversy surrounding the resignation/firing (depending on your POV), I don’t think it would have been notable.
by Aurornis