Discussion summary
Researchers developed spider venom that kills varroa mites without harming honeybees, potentially offering a new treatment. Some discussions question whether mites are the main cause of bee decline, citing other factors. Concerns about honey safety and bee health impacts are also raised.
What the discussion says
- Spider venom could be a targeted, biodegradable treatment.
- Debate on whether mites are the primary cause of bee decline.
- Questions about honey safety and allergen risks.
- Current treatments often make honey inedible.
- Some believe mites are not the main factor in bee deaths.
“Spider venom kills mites without harming bees.”
“Are mites really the main cause of bee decline?”
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- Hacker News
- we're going to need a lot of very tiny syringes and band-aids!by skeeter2020
- How did they screen for this venom?
- Too lazy to read an article that takes about one minute? Sheesh.
> “We screened 50 venoms, mostly from spiders and scorpions, by applying them externally to the mites,” says Herzig. > “We found more than 75% killed the mites within 24 hours. We selected 2 of the most potent spider venoms for further analysis.” - IIRC the Asian honey bee is more resilient to mitesby mjanx123
- Yes, they remove the mites if they detect them. Asian honey bee colonies usually do not collapse from varroa mites.
But since European honey bees produce much more honey, the are the prefered species and used worldwide
by CommonGuy - Spider venom saving bees was not on my bingo card, but this is genuinely cool. Obviously "works on mites in the lab" is a long way from "works safely and cheaply in a real hive", but varroa is such a nasty problem that even a new direction is worth paying attention toby eleveriven
- One day bees will evolve to produce spider venomby benbojangles
- I was rather thinking of bees developing the ability to shoot tiny lasers to cook the mites off like popcorn. Or maybe a static discharge from their wings rubbing together, like a natural taser.by speed_spread
- Asian bees are perfectly capable of removing and killing mites as is. So are some breed species of European honey bees. There have been found abandoned apiary in France where the bees have evolved to groom themselves and remove the mites.
The bees does need to evolve, but not to the point of producing venom. Mechanical mite removal works equally well.
by mrweasel - Some potentially seriously good news there if it all pans out the way it sounds like it might. Fingers crossed for the bees!by blooalien
- This assumes the mites are what kills the bees. What is that asssumption is flawed?by shevy-java
- Powdered sugar is the standard treatment for removing varroa mites that have emerged from capped cells.
"The peptides killed only the mites, while the bees survived."
What benefits do these new treatments offer? They certainly won't be cheaper.
https://www.honeybeesuite.com/can-powdered-sugar-control-var...
Edit: "Treatments every week killed more mites than treatments every two weeks, which killed more mites than treatments every month... The only treatment schedule that effectively suppressed mites over long periods was once per week... sugar dusting has been found to significantly reduce adult mite populations at times when little brood is present."
by chasil - > Powdered sugar is the standard treatment
This is hilariously impractical and won’t do a thing for the mites in the capped brood.
The labour involved in doing this at scale would be prohibitive too.
by lostlogin - The article you linked lists a bunch of downsides to powdered sugar: it doesn’t kill the mites it just encourages the bees to brush them off, it has reduced effectiveness when it’s humid, it doesn’t work on mites that aren’t actively on a bees body, and it has to be applied regularly.by bspammer
- There currently isn't a effective treatment for varroa that doesn't also kill the hive. It is not a solved problem, and there is certainly room for more research in this space.by m4x
- Kinda related, but in my house I don’t kill spiders, as long as they are in the corners they can live rent free while cleaning other bugs. Before, one time I went and killed all of them, in less than a week I started seeing sliverfish and similar bugs, I realized I messed up the natural order, so I just keep em now!by tamimio
- I leave the wolf spiders as they don't make webs.by brikym
- In my old house we sprayed for spiders and ants, and a few weeks later there were cockroaches everywhere. I guess it was just a coincidence. >.>by taneq
- The hard truth these days is that the work of bee keeping is like 80% keeping the mites in check. Plus all current treatments render the honey inedible so you can only do it at the end of the season.by roboben
- No. The mites are not what is killing the bees.
And, by the way - natural pathogens exist in just about any population. These very, very rarely led to extinction. There is a media trend to claim the mites are at fault. This reminds me of prior fault yielding e. g. "mad cow disease" - and then the media also stopped doing any further investigation at that point. It's as if they have break points where you can not go past those points. Now it is the mites that get blamed.
by shevy-java - > all current treatments render the honey inedible
I don’t believe oxalic acid has a withdrawal period?
by lostlogin - Last I checked researchers were trying to evolve bees to be mite resistant. Is this something you've come across?by brikym
- > Plus all current treatments render the honey inedible
Formic acid is one of the few treatments which is acceptable to use while honey is present.
by moebrowne - I've been keeping bees for well over a decade now, and Varroa mite management and prevention of downstream disease vectors like deformed wing virus are consuming ever greater amounts of our time and concern in the community.
Personally, I've tried a number of mitigations with varying levels of success--most all resulting in requeening due to toxicity of treatment. At this point unless a truly successful new therapy is found it seems like a losing battle tbh. I meet monthly with beekeepers and scientists monthly for a few years now, an 99% of the time discussions involve Varroa destructor. It has that name for a reason...
by drzaiusx11 - Depending on location acid treatments can only be done after the honey harvest anyway, due to temperatures, so it's a minor issue.
You can also use drone frames, and remove drone brood during the summer, or cage the queen a period of time. These are both mechanical treatments and obviously doesn't hurt the honey.
by mrweasel - I did some light research on the topic.
Wiki page about the specific parasite that affects honey bees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varroa_destructor
On that page there mention of "honey bee genetics" as a form of parasite control. It is called "Varroa sensitive hygiene". Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varroa_sensitive_hygiene
It sounds like you need to buy better gene stock in your area. USDA started publishing about this finding in 1997, almost 30 years ago.> Varroa sensitive hygiene (VSH) is a behavioral trait of honey bees (Apis mellifera) in which bees detect and remove bee pupae that are infested by the parasitic mite Varroa destructor. VSH activity results in significant resistance to the mites. - To add, varroa quickly gains immunity to the pharmaceutical treatment we have, so the same medication cannot be used 2 years in a row. Most popular treatment from late 90s that used to kill 99% of varroa is now completely ineffective.
It was explained to me this is well planned and solved in Czechia. Varroa treatment is refunded my the government, but only one type of medication every 6 months. It's cheaper for beekeepers to use whatever the government gives them for free, than use something else. And the medication is free only for a few weeks, so everyone will use it at the same time.
by agilob - Honeybees are not native to North America.
It is great and currently necessary we use them the way we do. It makes one wonder in the age of AI and evolving farm practices, can we start finding ways to cultivate already-climate-adapted native bees to do the work? Can we leverage adaptations for specific crops?
I get it that honeybees work great at pollinating monoculture fields, etc., but that does not change the fact we are perpetuating a square peg in round hole problem and pushing it very very far right now, at greater and greater cost, all while climate change is fighting us.
by schainks - If they are not native, how did plant propagate seeds? Flies? Wasps? Butterflies?by halflife
- The hard part is probably that "native bees" are not a drop-in replacement for managed hives you can put on a truck and move between farmsby eleveriven