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  • > After getting comfortable reading code with so many parentheses

    I never managed to get over the ().

    Ruby has a very flexible syntax, compared to many other languages, in that you can omit syntax in many cases. For instance, using () for method calls is largely, for the most part, optional. So when I have the python code:

        cat = Cat()
    cat.meow()
    I find it worse than the ruby code:

        cat = Cat.new
    cat.meow
    (Though you can use () in ruby there too; but most people won't do so as there is little point in that.)

    This is a superficial issue though. Python's biggest mistake is to require implicit self. It always feels as if I need to hand-hold python and trying to explain to it what an object is and what self is. In ruby I don't have that issue. Note that I find both languages fine, but ruby is "more" object oriented than python is, for many reasons.

    Lisp is quite different though. I had some exposure to it via scheme and while it can be fun, I feel that lisp is a worse programming language than either ruby or python. The old game haxima/nazghul was given up eventually, primarily due to lack of time, but also because the author was no longer convinced of scheme (the core of the engine is in C if I recall correctly). He tried to switch to python, though, which did not work (but, again, I think it was mostly due to lack of time). The scheme code in haxima/nazghul was quite interesting (https://sourceforge.net/projects/nazghul/ if you want to look at the scheme code there), but I much prefer either ruby or python there. Although it would be interesting to have DSLs that would really focus on the game or project at hand, like in the old Zak McKracken game.

    by shevy-java
  • I thought this was going to be https://web.archive.org/web/20120106121645/http://wiki.alu.o.... Brings back memories of following comp.lang.lisp, not least as a sort of soap opera. Lots of characters and drama, as well as programming wizardry.
    by BellsOnSunday
  • There are some truly powerful and unique things about Lisps, but I wish articles like this would stop including REPLs and hot-reloading. The former have been table stakes for interpreted languages (and some compiled ones!) for years, and the latter is neither unique nor particularly widely used (hot reloads have to tangle with state and patching, so resetting the world for ease of reasoning is considered a best practice for a reason).
    by zbentley
  • I've been programming Lisp too long to appreciate it's features. It is not until I watch in shock and horror how people sabotage themselves in the popular and economically less risky languages that I suddenly come to appreciate Lisp again.
    by awolven
  • There are many articles extolling the virtues of Lisp. I would like to see some articles that have a level-headed criticisms or critique of Lisp, it's ideas and it's place in the ecosystem of languages.

    Articles like this, and the PG articles it references, amount to "if you know, you know". I understand the appeal and I understand the explicit and implicit arguments this article is making.

    Computer programming has matured quite a bit in the past 60 years. I would like to see more articles that are more considered in their examination.

    by abetusk
  • Don't miss out, we had new excellent editors and tools being released in the last months:

    Mine: a complete, single-download application that comes with everything needed to experience the interactive and incremental development programming workflow, including hot-reloading and on-the-fly debugging. For CL and Coalton.

    https://coalton-lang.github.io/20260424-mine/

    OLIVE: a new hand-made plugin for VSCode.

    ICL: a new REPL for the terminal and the browser with advanced features.

    as a bonus: a JupyterLite kernel based on JSCL that runs 100% in the browser.

    find them all: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht...

    by vindarel
  • The website seems to have a bug with syntax highlighting. Pieces of code included in the post text are black, you can still see the actual text if you select it with your mouse. Same bug on Chrome desktop and on Safari on iPad
    by AlexeyBrin
  • Programming is in tension between the Light Side and the Dark Side.

    The Light Side is about preventing the programmer from making mistakes: Get rid of go-tos! Add static types! Do not allow a bug to be expressible. The Dark Side is about giving power to the programmer: Macros? Obviously. Operator overloading? Self-modifying code? Multi-line reg-exps? Go to town!

    The Light Side knows programmers are flawed and imposes constraints. The Dark Side trusts programmers with power. Neither side is correct all of the time, and a good programmer learns both.

    Lisp is interesting in that it is clearly Dark Side programming (the programmer can do anything) but it's still admired by Light Side programmers. Maybe there's something about the simplicity of the language that makes it seem platonic--almost incorruptible. Or maybe Lisp is so pure that it embodies both Light Side and Dark Side, like a god that spawned the programming universe.

    by GMoromisato

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