Comments
Hacker News
This does not really work well, if you don't know the complexity of the problem ahead of time and ensure all future conversations go to the same model.
Else, you break the cache by doing a round robin of the same conversation across different models. Likely you'll end up paying more than what it would've cost with a cache aware system
by subygan
So this is the dogpile.com of the askjeeves, alta vista, and lycos approach? Time is a flat circle?
by dluan
No benchmarks, no info on which models are used, ai generated video, just a signup page with nothing else.
Anyhow, this kinda reminds me of that quote about architecture: "We replaced our monolith with micro services so that every outage could be more like a murder mystery."
by kamranjon
No single signin. Privacy policy allows training. No try it first without credit card. It's a good idea, but this looks premature.
by tj800x
I wouldn't be surprised if "the best model" becomes a niche concept over the next few years.
For most production systems the winning architecture may end up being an orchestrator that knows when to call a cheap model when to escalate to a stronger one and when to combine multiple outputs.
by runtime_lens
> Fable-level results at 1/3 the cost
I am guessing this is not targeting those of us on the heavily subsidized $200/mo plans. Sure, these plans may be temporary, but none of us really know how temporary they are. Until then, 1/3rd of the published API pricing is not very appealing.
by cheema33
thanks to everyone for taking the time to try Echo and share feedback, this is precisely why i wanted to launch early.
i am going to try to address a couple of topics that came up often:
- i'll keep publishing stronger evals, including more difficult coding and agentic benchmarks, to map out more precisely the differences with sota
- the public eval dashboard will keep expanding and be updated (very open to more benchmark suggestions as well!)
- some people found issues in the eval dashboard ui and the sign up flow, should be now all fixed in prod
some important precisions as well:
- NO credit card is required to try Echo
- each acount includes 10$ of free credits to try on both the API and the chat
on the approach itself: the idea i'm exploring is more broader than model routing, i'm looking at how to allocate inference efficiently across open-weight models, deciding not only which models to use, but also how much computation a request deserves and how intermediate work should be combined.
ensembling by itself is not new. since random forests and probably even before in statistics/classic ml we knew that bringing multiple models together can outperform individual ones. the interesting problem for Echo is how to model and leverage this without paying the full ensemble cost at each request.
while there are conceptual similarities with systems like Fusion or Fugu, the architecture and optimization objective are different.
thanks again for all the thoughtful feedback.
by adam_rida
A "Message Echo" textbox that makes it look like you can get a response to a prompt without logging in, only to redirect to the sign-up page. Such a classic dark pattern - and such a sure way to get me to leave your site immediately.
I've literally taken one step on your website - the one your site design invited me to take - and immediately got tripped up. I'm not coming back.
by fmx
Join the discussion
Write your take first — we'll ask for email only when you're ready to publish.
- Hacker News
- This does not really work well, if you don't know the complexity of the problem ahead of time and ensure all future conversations go to the same model.
Else, you break the cache by doing a round robin of the same conversation across different models. Likely you'll end up paying more than what it would've cost with a cache aware system
by subygan - So this is the dogpile.com of the askjeeves, alta vista, and lycos approach? Time is a flat circle?by dluan
- No benchmarks, no info on which models are used, ai generated video, just a signup page with nothing else.
Anyhow, this kinda reminds me of that quote about architecture: "We replaced our monolith with micro services so that every outage could be more like a murder mystery."
by kamranjon - No single signin. Privacy policy allows training. No try it first without credit card. It's a good idea, but this looks premature.by tj800x
- I wouldn't be surprised if "the best model" becomes a niche concept over the next few years. For most production systems the winning architecture may end up being an orchestrator that knows when to call a cheap model when to escalate to a stronger one and when to combine multiple outputs.by runtime_lens
- > Fable-level results at 1/3 the cost
I am guessing this is not targeting those of us on the heavily subsidized $200/mo plans. Sure, these plans may be temporary, but none of us really know how temporary they are. Until then, 1/3rd of the published API pricing is not very appealing.
by cheema33 - thanks to everyone for taking the time to try Echo and share feedback, this is precisely why i wanted to launch early.
i am going to try to address a couple of topics that came up often:
- i'll keep publishing stronger evals, including more difficult coding and agentic benchmarks, to map out more precisely the differences with sota
- the public eval dashboard will keep expanding and be updated (very open to more benchmark suggestions as well!)
- some people found issues in the eval dashboard ui and the sign up flow, should be now all fixed in prod
some important precisions as well:
- NO credit card is required to try Echo
- each acount includes 10$ of free credits to try on both the API and the chat
on the approach itself: the idea i'm exploring is more broader than model routing, i'm looking at how to allocate inference efficiently across open-weight models, deciding not only which models to use, but also how much computation a request deserves and how intermediate work should be combined.
ensembling by itself is not new. since random forests and probably even before in statistics/classic ml we knew that bringing multiple models together can outperform individual ones. the interesting problem for Echo is how to model and leverage this without paying the full ensemble cost at each request.
while there are conceptual similarities with systems like Fusion or Fugu, the architecture and optimization objective are different.
thanks again for all the thoughtful feedback.
by adam_rida - A "Message Echo" textbox that makes it look like you can get a response to a prompt without logging in, only to redirect to the sign-up page. Such a classic dark pattern - and such a sure way to get me to leave your site immediately.
I've literally taken one step on your website - the one your site design invited me to take - and immediately got tripped up. I'm not coming back.
by fmx