Comments
Hacker News
the whippings will continue until Dx core 4 metrics improve
Did anyone here ever worked under these sorts of "metrics"? I can't even imagine what a torture it would be.
by jcarrano
The problem is that there are so many people involved in software development who have never developed anything but still somehow are in the position to manage others who do.
That's why there are so many stupid ideas floating around.
by zeroc8
Developers don't like being measured for good and bad reasons. The good reason is that there is lots of effort that we expend that isn't always captured in metrics like long pieces of design or training others etc. The bad is that we don't being told that we aren't as productive as other people even if we are!
My experience is that these are only useful over a long enough period and across enough people that we can spot genuine outliers. For example, your average across the last 6 months is "15" and the average of everyone else is "25", can you help me see whether you are being given too much off-target work or are there any other issues that are blocking you getting stuff done?
by lbriner
my current place uses DX and it's well received, if done transparently and for the right reasons. there's a lot of very interesting research in these areas (e.g. EngThrive) where the focus is on measuring things that if gamed result in better outcomes
there's strong correlation when onboarding an engineer between the time to first/tenth/fiftieith PR and their PR throughput two years later, so the answer is make it really easy to do PRs when onboarding, and they saw the same outcome even if those initial PRs were trivial
through DORA/SPACE/DevEx they also found that asking your engineers if they feel productive is generally as useful and reliable than trying to measure every possible dimension - which is why DX is based largely around the survey with subjective responses. if you actually use those responses to address friction and frustration, from my experience you end up with more, better, easier work getting done
it's possible to work in a team that cares about measuring their effectiveness, and using those measurements to understand how to be more effective. most/all engineers will have an idea of how they could improve their work, but the reality when you actually spend time to measure often shows a lot of different things you might not have been aware of
by aevv
> Whether you’re a C-level leader or a frontline manager, there is no denying that measuring developer productivity—whether to understand performance or guide improvement—is a daunting challenge.
good
Focus on the stuff that matters, not on tormenting the people that make you money.
by igleria
It’s remarkable (but not reassuring) how carefully they avoid saying “part of the Atlassian family” in any promotional material for some reason.
by wokwokwok
I would like to present DX team another metric.
It is called "not wanting to work in a company that is insulting me with measures like metrics, spying on screens, squeezing every drop of sweat and exploiting its workers for already huge profit.
My last job change was exactly due to company acquisition by USA company that started to exploit everything work related, removing wfh, ruining life-job ballance,... And who leaves first? Those who can.
So you are not really measuring developer productivity but helping company get rid of most productive people, while all others stay.
by stiray
Join the discussion
Write your take first — we'll ask for email only when you're ready to publish.
- Hacker News
- the whippings will continue until Dx core 4 metrics improve
- Did anyone here ever worked under these sorts of "metrics"? I can't even imagine what a torture it would be.by jcarrano
- The problem is that there are so many people involved in software development who have never developed anything but still somehow are in the position to manage others who do.
That's why there are so many stupid ideas floating around.
by zeroc8 - Developers don't like being measured for good and bad reasons. The good reason is that there is lots of effort that we expend that isn't always captured in metrics like long pieces of design or training others etc. The bad is that we don't being told that we aren't as productive as other people even if we are!
My experience is that these are only useful over a long enough period and across enough people that we can spot genuine outliers. For example, your average across the last 6 months is "15" and the average of everyone else is "25", can you help me see whether you are being given too much off-target work or are there any other issues that are blocking you getting stuff done?
by lbriner - my current place uses DX and it's well received, if done transparently and for the right reasons. there's a lot of very interesting research in these areas (e.g. EngThrive) where the focus is on measuring things that if gamed result in better outcomes
there's strong correlation when onboarding an engineer between the time to first/tenth/fiftieith PR and their PR throughput two years later, so the answer is make it really easy to do PRs when onboarding, and they saw the same outcome even if those initial PRs were trivial
through DORA/SPACE/DevEx they also found that asking your engineers if they feel productive is generally as useful and reliable than trying to measure every possible dimension - which is why DX is based largely around the survey with subjective responses. if you actually use those responses to address friction and frustration, from my experience you end up with more, better, easier work getting done
it's possible to work in a team that cares about measuring their effectiveness, and using those measurements to understand how to be more effective. most/all engineers will have an idea of how they could improve their work, but the reality when you actually spend time to measure often shows a lot of different things you might not have been aware of
by aevv - > Whether you’re a C-level leader or a frontline manager, there is no denying that measuring developer productivity—whether to understand performance or guide improvement—is a daunting challenge.
good
Focus on the stuff that matters, not on tormenting the people that make you money.
by igleria - It’s remarkable (but not reassuring) how carefully they avoid saying “part of the Atlassian family” in any promotional material for some reason.by wokwokwok
- I would like to present DX team another metric.
It is called "not wanting to work in a company that is insulting me with measures like metrics, spying on screens, squeezing every drop of sweat and exploiting its workers for already huge profit.
My last job change was exactly due to company acquisition by USA company that started to exploit everything work related, removing wfh, ruining life-job ballance,... And who leaves first? Those who can.
So you are not really measuring developer productivity but helping company get rid of most productive people, while all others stay.
by stiray