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- Hacker News
- It's a broken system. The platforms don't have the skin in the game.
It does exploit the developers, you have to provide A+ support, and often outside the scope of your app just to prevent reviews.
Personally, I don't automatically prompt for reviews at all. Only after a great 1:1 actual conversational interaction.
As a result, my reviews are a tiny fraction of the bigger players. This is the opposite strategy that works.
The reviews game incentivizes high volume, cheap software with automated review capture.
by ctrlaltdylan - The platform does have skin in the game and it's also making a lot of money off the app store. Just saying...by tartoran
- Nice catch: Building something for one purpose then [gradually] end up using it for something else.
For software you probably want a feedback box baked in.
If there should be something like star ratings it should probably be baked into the app and allow the user to change it at any time.
You probably get better numbers by measuring how long the application remained installed and how many minutes it was used in total.
As a user I would be interested in the volume of instant uninstalls. For games you want many hours of usage, for simple tools a very low number could be attractive.
OT: You had me imagine a music store with in-song purchases. Give the buyer all instrument tracks so that they can adjust the volume of each, buy extra instruments and singers, crowd source new instruments. Seems fun.
by econ - >The anonymous crowdsourced rating and review system was designed for songs, where the only thing that matters is personal musical taste.
I think that's the core, but that's also the problem with all reviews, more so user reviews. I'm not sure there's an answer.
I've been getting into board games lately. It's the same problem even where the enthusiasts who you might think would be "better" reviewers are largely doing the ratings. But for a variety of reasons that I suspect, they're not that great at rating either ... the ratings trend towards the complex games and known popular games / styles. There's no good way to sort through them, lots of efforts have been made but I don't think anyone has figured it out.
by duxup - App Store ratings unfairly favor positive reviews. The App Store makes it more difficult to view negative reviews or older, relevant ones. I’ve written a number of targeted low reviews (for security, hostile UI, crashes – sincere reviews) and noticed that the high quality, low star reviews get pushed down to the bottom.
App developers have loads of hostile practices. Review nagging is hostile, especially on a critical app like a GPS popping up a nag when you are lost and a bit frazzled. Constant upsells (like strava), flaky offline service (Alltrails, and recently, Gaia), spammy ads ( MyQ) , convoluted retail journeys (McDonalds) all deserve criticism; and if you have many of those anti-patterns, a one star review.
If Anything, App developers are rather myopic about their “business” and don’t take their own app’s utility seriously. You wouldn’t want your microwave or sewing machine to stop working suddenly and ask the customer for a review. These are tools that need to be responsive 100% of the time.
by tonymet - > Imagine if a professional writer for the tech news media submitted this app review to their editor for publication. The writer would likely be fired for incompetence.
It's not an article, it's a review. Everyone knows it's some random fuckwit.
> Below is a one-star review that I discovered today—App Store developers must check manually for reviews because Apple fails to send us email notifications...
There's an API. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appstoreconnectapi...
IIRC there's a webhook too.
> The reviews are irrationally nitpicky, choosing one quibble and making the entire review about that.
I've got bad news on those "professional writers" from the first bit.
> Some App Store users even abuse the review system for technical support purposes...
This probably means you've made your support system too hard to find/use.
> Indeed, if ratings requests were initiated by Apple, then Apple could go as far as to ban developer-initiated ratings requests in the App Store.
They did! It's a one-shot dialog now.
App devs responded by adding a "Are you liking the app?" nag screen of their own, which I say "yes" to, then decline the real one.
Developers made this bed for themselves.
by ceejayoz - > > Indeed, if ratings requests were initiated by Apple, then Apple could go as far as to ban developer-initiated ratings requests in the App Store.
> They did! It's a one-shot dialog now.
No. Apple provides an API, but Apple doesn't ask for reviews. The app has to initiate the process to ask for a review (through Apple's API). That is what the developer highlights: If Apple were to solicit reviews from customers, then said API could be retired and apps could reasonably be banned entirely from soliciting reviews. As it stands, they're caught in a tragedy of the commons, with unscrupulous developers winning (e.g. with fake reviews, or the annoying "are you satisfied" pop-up before displaying the Apple API).
by FabHK - > Apple could mitigate this problem by emailing App Store customers at some point after purchase with a request to rate the app, so that app developers don’t need to request reviews.
I don't think the fix to "users don't want nags to review apps" is to email users nags to review apps.
by Marsymars - > I don't think the fix to "users don't want nags to review apps" is to email users nags to review apps.
That's why I said "mitigate" rather than "solve". I personally would abolish the whole system.
The advantage of an email, though, is that it doesn't interrupt your workflow while you're using the software.
by lapcat - What. The author of this post ought to be ashamed of their desperate effort to avoid being called out for making shitty and/or obnoxious software by blaming the people to describe to future victims that it is shitty and/or obnoxious software. Clearly people should be required to spend their hard-earned money and scarce time on software without having access to information about how other people experienced it.by paultopia
- How many apps have you personally made and released? Do you know what it’s like to get an abusive review on something you spent a lot of time and effort making or do you never enter the arena yourself and simply consume and criticize?by codemog
- In Settings -> Apps -> App Store, I have “In-App Ratings and Reviews” toggled off. Nevertheless, I still occasionally get shown a review prompt, even for paid apps. You can bet I leave a one star review in this case; I paid for the app, and I opted out of reviews. If you want to ask me to leave a review without respecting my time and stated preference, you deserve one star.by ptmkenny
- This might be bit unfair.
App developers, can signal the OS when they believe is the right time to ask for a review, but it is the OS that decides to show the prompt. The app developer has no idea about your OS preferences and I don't think they deserve a 1 star review just because the OS failed to honor your stated preference.
by interfeco - Am I mistaken or is the premise: I don't like that users have an opinion about my app?by jurgenkesker
- I think Principal Skinner tried to learn how to code.by kotaKat
- I think it is more that ratings just aren't a great metric for app quality. The people doing the rating aren't necessarily even knowledgeable about the app they're reviewing let alone other similar apps. I would agree.
But I'd also say basic ratings of all kinds ... sort of stink for the same reason(s).
by duxup - You are mistaken.
> Indie developers can’t win in the App Store. Since we’re mostly unknown to the public, we need positive App Store ratings and reviews for our apps to encourage purchases. If we don’t request ratings from all users, then the self-initiated ratings tend to be disproportionately people with a complaint rather than satisfied users
by ghusto - The exact opposite, really. You live or die by app store ratings. Too many ratings are bogus (don't accurately describe the app's functionality, just some random feeling the user has in the moment). Either the App Store should take on more burden to ensure ratings are accurate (perhaps criteria? disincentivize false ratings?), or eliminate/downplay the system.
There are already commenters proudly declaring they abuse the system because there is just no incentives not to.
by scottyah - Yes, but I want to give OP the benefit of the doubt.
I'm sure it's frustrating to put the work into building an app with several features only to receive a one-star review because a user feels slighted by one specific behavior, but this is how users have been trained to behave because it's the only lever of power the users have. Writing a thoughtful and detailed feature request or bug report is often a fool's errand. Users just give the app 1 star and move on.
by wanhandle - That's my read. Both reviews seem fair to me. E.g. if translation is important to that user then maybe it's better to take a note of it rather than be angry. Also, being upset about users hating your obnoxious nag screen? hahah wow.by tensor
- App tells customer to review it. Customer reviews the app honestly (the nag is annoying and deserves 1 star). Seems like the nag screen worked? :)
(Although in seriousness, I get this point they make further down in the article: "If we don’t request ratings from all users, then the self-initiated ratings tend to be disproportionately people with a complaint rather than satisfied users. ". That's a real problem. )
by schmorptron - There are ways to non-annoyingly ask for a review.
Wait until the user has meaningfully used the app. Don't interrupt the user mid-flow (a banner on the dashboard, a call-to-action on a piece of existing copy) with a modal. Provide a clear "never ask me" option.
by ceejayoz - Just because “everyone does it” doesn’t mean you get a pass to do it too.
Nagging the user to “rate my app” is pure self-interest at the expense of user-experience. I rate any app that nags (ie: more than thrice) me to rate it too. OTOH if I genuinely like some software I’m happy to rate it highly.
Bottom line: It’s not my job to help sell your software - that’s your job. As for trying to get Apple in on the “screw what the user wants to do, there’s STARVING INDY DEVELOPRS that need ratings!”, I don’t think I’ve come across anything so self-serving recently.. Wow.
by spacedcowboy - Not to excuse nag screens but I think the real question is: How should discovery work?
Riding the wave of success doesn't say much about quality. How could one even begin to measure quality?
I might enjoy and use an application for decades. That only makes me ignorant about the alternatives.
by econ - Did you read the whole thing? His reasoning is difficult to dismiss as "well, you shouldn't do it anyway".by ghusto
- This! Personally I feel overwhelmed by dialog boxes and other trash content that gets in the way of content I need to see to do my tasks.
I want to see somebody punished whenever something appears. I'd like to see the EU legislators who gave us these GDPR popups treated like war criminals and jailed if they leave the EU (e.g. they've cost us billions in productivity) I'd like to see harsh treatment for those discriminatory and accessibility-violating "click on the traffic lights" popups, that stupid anime girl who is on way too many open source web sites, etc.
And I think apps that show one of those nags should be kicked immediately out of the app store.
by PaulHoule - Wait, do developers control when those nags appear or does Apple? I originally thought it was the devs, but then they all were so consistent in presentation I thought maybe Apple prompted on every app after some amount of time.
I originally rated any app that nagged 1 star, but stopped after thinking that maybe they couldn't control it. But it sounds like maybe they can?
by vvbull - Negative reviews inflate genuine good software just because positive reviews are simply not written usually. people like to complain and not to give positive feedback if things work as expected.by loremium
- > As for trying to get Apple in on the “screw what the user wants to do, there’s STARVING INDY DEVELOPRS that need ratings!”, I don’t think I’ve come across anything so self-serving recently.. Wow.
I think you misunderstood the post. I would like to abolish the entire crowdsourced rating and review system. I don't want to request ratings at all. However, if Apple insists on having crowdsourced ratings and reviews in the App Store, then I think it would be better to have Apple-initiated email requests that don't interrupt the workflow of users instead of apps requesting reviews while users are using them.
by lapcat - > I rate any app that nags (ie: more than thrice) me to rate it too.
Interesting. Apps can only ask three times a year (from Apple's documentation, my highlights):
"Asking for ratings and reviews
You can ask users to rate and review your app at appropriate times throughout the user experience. Make the request when users are most likely to feel satisfaction with your app, such as when they’ve completed an action, level, or task. Make sure not to interrupt their activity. The SKStoreReviewController API lets you give users an easy way to provide feedback about your app. You can prompt for ratings up to three times in a 365-day period."
by FabHK