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  • Hacker News
  • ASML dropped; it used to be the undisputed leader of immersion DUV

    Interesting in so many ways that theinfo kept the company anon but Reuters exposed it (allegedly)

    Aside: what we know for sure is that Chinese are catching up to Japanese in putting dad-style puns in their brands

    https://www.hoshinocoffee.com/

    by oliculipolicula
  • Basically game over for compute wars in ~5 years if PRC serious, PRC doesn't need EUV to win compute game. If they hammer DUV tools and commoditize semi (i.e. remove 50-80% margins along every step of supply chain) they will simply be able to sell chips at fraction price of west, even accounting for multi pattern inefficiencies. TCO may still swing leading edge favor depending on infra / energy price, but as far as compute race goes, PRC can hammer power, fabs, DCs all at much lower input costs. The bottleneck has always been semi tooling.
    by maxglute
  • I would not be overestimating this achievement, but not underestimating either. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. China had access to the latest EUV tech for some time already, so they had abilities to reverse-engineer that tech. Eventually, the verdict will be clear only after we see actual chips produced using these machine, and when we learn their real yield.
    by toplinesoftsys
  • China is still far behind modern lithography. It took ASML almost 2 decades to get from immersion DUV (and EUV prototypes) to commercial EUV machines.
    by AsyncBanana
  • All of this can be traced back to the 2018 blacklisting of ZTE, and the continued willful ignorance of China's capabilities, and of the history of industrialization and technological progress.
    by try-working
  • It doesn't make me upset that China seems able and determined to catch up on the litography technology - what else are they supposed to do?

    What does make me upset is that Europe has the technology and seems unwilling or unable to get it's act together and make some chips. China seems to have managed this part too, only without access to the latest chip making technology!

    by rich_sasha
  • After living and working in China 10yrs and fundamentally experiencing the growth rate and culture, it's been a bit horrifying to watch the Western world consistently decide withholding tech from China and giving them no other option but develop their own tech, is a good idea. They are the ultimate long-term planners and I have no doubt the existing gaps will be relatively short lived before China closes them.
    by bobjordan

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