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  • Hacker News
  • Just to confirm the title: The Destiny 2 disc does not have a single playable mission on it anymore.
    by mvanbaak
  • Fascinating listener comment, from a librarian to ATP, about the special legal exceptions with which libraries were equipped to have a chance against copyright and DRM tech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u11ar0649Y4&t=373s (timestamped deep-link)
    by alexfringes
  • For an FPGA project I'm working on that requires a host software program on the host computer, I've been looking into finding a way to burn the host software or source code to the fpga itself. So you'd just plug in the USB port and it would automatically open a filesystem and let you copy over the source code or even binary blob for the software so it would work in the future.
    by polishdude20
  • yeah the backlash against sony is focusing on the wrong detail, disks don't mean ownership and digital doesn't mean you can't own it

    the disks themselves are largely a relic already, not enough storage for some games... and I don't recall a game I've played recently that didn't require a download on first play

    it would be nice to have some regulation that at least requires games to have some sort of labelling that indicates a minimum length of support for online functionality requirements

    by micromacrofoot
  • I like to think this'll be around forever

    https://discworld.starturtle.net/lpc/

    by grimgrin
  • Get a Mig Flash, rip your games, support the emulator communities, etc.

    It's so easy for DRM'd games to become lost forever as the rights transfer around, and the hosting or support costs stop being worth it for publishers.

    by glaslong
  • I don't understand how we are running into a future where I cannot buy the equivalent of "PS2 + 5 games" on a second-hand shop. That has been the main way to play games for a lot of people: buy a previous gen pack (with N games included) when the richer neighbour was upgrading to the next gen console.

    How's that going to work out today or in newer generations?

    by j1elo
  • Old games have big sales, 90% range.

    Well at least steam ones.

    by krzyk
  • The young people today are so used to just paying a subscription, it’s really sad. On the upside there is a movement in buying older physical media among the youth but I think it’s more of a fad.
    by dawnerd
  • If you are willing to do a bit of research, there are easily hackable models of PS3 and PS4 and then you can put dumped games on them even if the official store is gone and there's none already on there. Then you just need to worry about getting the cables and controller. On that note, modding consoles tends to make it easier to use more controllers with them by bypassing the auth. I can use all sorts of modern and DIY controllers on my modded Xbox 360 and PS3, so even when the world runs out of working original controllers, they'll be useful. Being able to play game dumps off storage also means a failing disc drive is a minor issue.
    by opan
  • Got bitten by the deceptive nature of Nintendo "game key trash". Purchased a game online without reading carefully the description. Sent it back and bought a SteamDeck. I can't recall if the seller even put the correct visuals: game key trash have a banner telling that they are plastic waste and you should instead give all the money to nintendo by using eshop.
    by hollow-moe
  • Nintendo is the worst. Another example: Wii virtual console purchases don't carry over. They're selling people the exact same Mario ROMs dozens of times in a display of absolute rent seeking. Playstation recently got caught remotely deleting people's "purchased" movies too.

    I too bought a Steam Deck and haven't looked back. It's still a normal computer even if Steam itself goes to shit, but all signs point to it steadfastly refusing to do that. Here's to hoping Gaben never dies.

    by matheusmoreira
  • Game Key cards have a banner on the box explaining what they are and marking them. They are IMO superior to a digital purchase in all but convenience. You can still sell, gift, loan them, require no Nintendo account to use either. And after the download to the console they work just fine offline.

    Valve and Steam Works games happily sold literal trash that were useless to anyone but the first person who redeemed the key. They destroyed the second hand PC market selling codes in a box with potential time saver installers. And they still needed online activation.

    by chocochunks
  • To provide a basic level of consumer protection, governments should:

    1. Recognize that paying for a game implies ownership. Developers must not employ methods that remove purchased games from online stores or become otherwise unplayable.

    2. Recognize the legality of cracking games to make them playable.

    To put it in the classic anti-piracy "You wouldn't steal a car, would you?" terminology, we need to tell developers, "No, you can't sell us a car and then steal it. Yes, we have the right to built tools to take it back if you try."

    by beloch
  • I think item 1 will be most provable. Sony says "you can have X experience for Y dollars". You pay Y dollars. 10 years elapse. Sony says X is no longer available. Sony has absorbed Y dollars but your X is gone and you cannot access it. This is the new model.
    by accrual
  • Not a great article, but a very real phenomenon. I recently picked up a banned Nintendo Switch Lite for cheap -- meaning it can't download games or updates off Nintendo's servers, but it can still play cartridge games. And while most games function, there are more often than not critical fixes or significant content updates missing. The console exists in a strange sort of limbo where everything is playable but not in its best form.

    The problem with Sony killing physical games (and the wider culture of digital purchases) is, unfortunately, a long-term one. Nobody will be seriously affected right now, as long as Sony's update servers are up and both digital and physical are supported. But 10, 20 years from now, both from a game preservation standpoint and from a consumer protection standpoint, this will be disastrous, when many games will still be charging outrageous prices (without the soft check of reselling/trading) or even no longer exist.

    by ksymph
  • The lite is hackable with enough effort. You could probably sideload updates and such.
    by bobsmooth
  • They should be required to unban a console given a clear proof of purchase from a previous owner
    by LocalH
  • How did it get banned? Presumably it has a modchip inside which means that getting updates from alternative sources is still viable.
    by Starlevel004
  • This made me think of how we have to manually block certain devices (usually smart TVs) so they don’t “phone home” and show us ads and so forth. I see your switch being banned as a sort of mixed blessing. It’s liberating in a way. I wonder if there’s some way to use a proxy to self host the software patches. We had something similar on the PS3 homebrew scene.
    by gymbeaux
  • What games? One thing I do appreciate about the Switch is that most first party games come fully playable on cartridge. I bought Splatoon Raiders the other day on the way to the train station for a long ride; I popped it in and started playing, never had any internet. It occurred to me later that I probably couldn't have done this for a third party title.
    by Wowfunhappy
  • Discs don’t matter. The whole “bring back discs” thing is pointless. They’re gone. Period.

    Rights matter. If we had the same rights with digital purchases we had with old physical games the disc thing would be a much much smaller issue. Would many care outside true collectors?

    Don’t confuse the two. If you do, and you complain loudly enough, you’ll get the monkey’s paw version of discs. All the downsides of both, no upside at all.

    by MBCook
  • Legal rights don't matter if the other party is ever liquidated, or otherwise unable to meet their obligations.
    by nradov
  • Sony and other digital vendors have proven more than once that if it's digital, you are not in control regardless of legislation. Discs matter because they are the only even remotely trustworthy way of actually owning what you buy in perpetuity instead of this "renting" that we do now.

    Despite whatever rights you might have now or in the future they can just hand wave all that away with update to TOS. Sure, technically speaking it might not enforceable but realistically who is going to sue? Even class action lawsuits have very little teeth because the penalties are in the region of lunch money/pocket change. Now if Sony executives went to prison for a few months after each lawsuit that might encourage some behavior changes. Monetary penalties though? It's just the cost of doing business for them. And even if you do win, do you get to keep your account? Doubt it. Good luck trying to prove in court that you were shut down in retribution since it is their platform they can and will cut you off at their convenience. That's the contract you signed when you accepted those terms of service and there is no consumer law to protect you since it is their platform.

    With discs there is no middle-man and physical things have longer-standing legal precedence when it comes to protections so it is the path of least resistance for preservation of rights. Average consumer has no lobbying power to write entire new laws over digital goods and whatever gets written is reflective of what is currently in place and right now the people writing these laws are on the level of competence that they read their email from printed out paper: a physical format. Fighting for physical makes sense because the people involved with enforcing that protection understand that format better than digital.

    by tomkarho
  • It's a proof of purchase that can be transferred without approval by (or knowledge of) the original seller. There is literally no equivalent possible with digital sales, unless you accept flawless, pervasive DRM everywhere.

    It doesn't have to be a disc. It almost certainly does need to be physical.

    by Groxx
  • Discs do matter in one way. I don't think I have ever seen a digital "purchase" of any significance which I could resell or gift at a later time. Some "in game" things are resellable, but only within the game's ecosystem. All digital games, music, movies, ebooks, audio books, etc are not (AFAIK).

    So if I get tired of my DVD movie collection, I could sell it or give it to my kids. If I ever decide I'm too old for the retro game cartridges I have, they could go to future grandkids. But my GOG games or Bandcamp music is stuck with me forever (legally speaking). Nobody would know if I "gave" them to my kids, but there certainly is no way to resell them.

    Now this is still a rights issue, but physical media makes this easy (outside of keys/DRM as you point out) You always have the right to hand on a physical object.

    by sudobash1
  • Discs matter because centralized digital distribution is what is eroding your rights. The medium's the message.

    It's the malleability and ephemerality of digital content that has enabled not just restricting people's rights, but destroying the authenticity of media by arbitrarily replacing its content. The reason Amazon could delete 1984 from your Kindle, is its digital nature. Nobody, except you, can delete a book from your shelf or change its content.

    by Barrin92
  • Disc is a manifestation of right. Without this they will screw people without them even noticing
    by p0w3n3d
  • The discs have been a formality for longer than most gamers understand or want to admit. Sony is discontinuing disc sales as a response to how gamers are buying games not the other way around. So it's an irrational response but an understandable emotional response. It's a final marker of an era that realistically ended more than a decade ago. That video games are not an island: an enclosed experience of just you, the game, the console, the controller, the TV, and a bunch of wires connecting it all together. When we were kids, you had this little disc that exploded out into a world that was all your own to explore and experience. Now it's not all your own. When you bought a PlayStation 2 and some games, your relationship with Sony could end at any time and nothing would change in your day-to-day gaming experience. But today, buying a console is an ongoing relationship with the manufacturer every microsecond you play a game. And most people don't want to admit that. And ending disc production forces us to admit that old era has been dead and gone. More frighteningly, we helped it along every step of the way by overwhelmingly preferring digital downloads and always-on online games.
    by CoolestBeans
  • I'm still perfectly happy with my solo racing games on PS2, not that I play them much anymore (or I would have bought ought a PS3 4 or 5.)

    I never understood why I should prefer driving against some punks that spend their evening crashing into the other players on purpose or wait for online races to start.

    But anyone is different.

    by pmontra