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- Hacker News
- The paper: https://doi.org/10.1093/pnasnexus/pgaf341
The numbers:
[...]
We estimate average total residential long-term NO2 exposure across the United States to be ∼10 ppbv for people who own a gas stove (∼18 ppbv or more for households in the top 5% of gas burned while cooking) and ∼8 ppbv from total outdoor exposure for those with electric stoves, which cause no additional NO2 exposure.
[...]
Stratifying exposure by gas stove use intensity (i.e. by amount of gas burned while cooking, [...]), we find that people in households burning the 5th, 50th, and 95th percentiles of fuel nationally on average are exposed to 0.03 (95% CI: 0.01–0.07) ppbv, 1.7 (95% CI: 0.8–3.5) ppbv, and 10.3 (95% CI: 4.8–21.7) ppbv, respectively, of additional NO2 exposure from using their gas or propane stoves.
[...]
- It seems they considered water boiling in their numbers, which makes this estimation very non-portable across countries (e.g. countries where gas hobs are used, but also electric kettles are used)
- My thoughts as several things can be true at once:
- This study is the source of LinkedIn ads from climate change where they try to convince people to move from gas to electric because of bad health effects
- But it doesn't invalidate the study, because of course burning something indoors creates some sort of emission, which may causes asthma in kids
- But its not relevant for me because I'm a single adult not a child and I don't cook that much anyway
- And even when I used to have a gas stove, I used my induction burner more often as its more powerful and makes less waste heat compared to my gas stove
- and the reason I bought an induction wok burner from aliexpress, it can go much hotter than my gas stove
- But one thing that gas stoves excel is even the cheapest gas stoves have a smooth analog control, making it possible to gently heat things, which is important for cooking omelette. For the induction burners I have, it uses on off control, which will scorch the food if your setup (food + cookware) have low thermal mass to smooth it out. You think with the advancement of power electronics because of EV, ebikes, drones and AI data center power supplies someone is able to make a cheap induction burner with analog power control
by minetest2048 - Along the same lines - replacing gas stoves with electric ones is effective for treating asthma:
Article: https://theconversation.com/replacing-gas-stoves-with-electr...
Underling Study: https://www.jaci-inpractice.org/article/S2213-2198(26)00537-...
by gpm - I've used natural gas stoves, propane stoves, petrol stoves, kerosene stoves, naphta stoves, spirit-burning stoves, resistive electrical stoves, 'halogen' electric stoves, induction stoves, campfires and wood-burning stoves. I cook nearly every day for our family of 4 on... the wood-burning stove. It is the most powerful one of the lot, the most versatile and the most reliable. I can cook when the power has failed, I don't need infrastructure other than a way to gather wood of which we have plenty seeing how as we're living on a farm in the Swedish countryside, the thing heats the house while I'm cooking, in combination with a wok it is the clear winner to make anything stir-fried while it is just as useful to slow-cook rice pudding in winter time. The resistive electric stove next to the wood-burning one only sees use as a parking area for the stack of cast-iron pans I use. The induction plates sometimes see use when I'm cooking outside but otherwise I leave them be 'cause they're just not strong enough to my taste.
Wood. That's where it's at, at least for those living like we do. I understand that it won't work for those living in densely populated areas but for those who live in the sticks I'd say get yourself a wood-burning stove and learn how to use it. I suppose Stanford won't approve but that's their problem...
by hagbard_c - I feel like it should seem obvious gas stoves create unhealthy pollution in an indoor environment.
What is less obvious and what I would personally like to know is how much pollution remains if you have a hood above your gas stove that exhausts outdoors that is operating while cooking.
by stevenkkim - some definitely does linger and most consumer kitchen hoods are not strong enough, you can get a pm2.5 meter and find out yourself... in my experience a couple hours
the craziest thing is no hood at all, if you cook once a day that stuff lingers all day unless you open a bunch of windows
- That's why I love my induction range: all the benefits of gas (near instant heat control and response, even cooking, etc.), none of the asthma or benzene!
- I have a regular electric cooktop and it sucks, I wish I had induction. The heat control and response is unbelievably slow. It takes too long to heat up, but MUCH longer to cool down. If you overshoot, it's bad. Also, at least for mine, the range is not proportional. Medium heat to high heat is basically no difference.by preg_match
- I’m lucky we have a proper range hood that vents outside so I feel better about gas. If this is the same paper I read a year or two ago, or related to it, apparently that reduces the “pollution” in the house by like 90% or more. Going off memory though so someone correct me if I’ve got it wrong.
If the hood breaks down or the stove needs to be fully replaced, I will probably flip to induction. I had one in my old apartment and it was great
by Forgeties79 - I’ve been using induction since I have had kids and I enjoy it so much more than fire. That being said, I rent so I can only use 120V ones and the options are so limited here. Most of the small 120V ones make an obnoxious hum.by syntaxing
- The Impulse Labs stove has almost cartoonish levels of excessive power and uses 120V (and doesn’t even use particularly high current). The Breville Control Freak uses 120V and is a touch underpowered but is truly excellent. Both of these even have knobs (and both have very nifty temperature control capabilities).by amluto
- Cooking itself pollutes the air (e.g. oil droplets) so external ventilation is still essential.by xnx
- We love our induction stove top. The "burners" go from 1 to 9 but also have an L and P setting.
4 is the same as gas low. 7 is the same as gas high. 8 is wok hot. 9 is too hot. P is power - for heating up water. It's amazing.
It can melt your pan but it has a sensor to not let that happen. It does sometimes give the metal that blue color you get when you heat metal with a blow torch.
The sensor is also used for pan frying. It has presets for light to heavy frying and keeps the pan at the temp the whole time.
by comrade1234 - If you do the deep research on this there are many qualifiers to get the result they’re purporting. The main issue is you have to have little to no ventilation to make their numbers work. If you have a hood and or good indoor airflow to a window then this is all propaganda.by hellisothers
- Most hoods in apartments (and many houses) are not vented to the outdoors. They just move the air inside around.
You're not helping the air quality if all you do is move it around inside.
by btreecat - In practice... people don't use hoods (or maybe they don't work, but almost certainly the former). See for example this study https://www.jaci-inpractice.org/article/S2213-2198(26)00537-...
It was done on people suffering from asthma - with all the reason in the world to improve air quality. Replacing gas stoves with electric stoves a huge effect, on the other hand "installation of a ventilation hood over an existing gas stove in 15 other homes did not significantly change NO2 levels".
by gpm - > If you have a hood and or good indoor airflow to a window then this is all propaganda.
In other words, it’s not propaganda. Since the researchers specifically called for prioritizing ventilation improvements in smaller / worse ventilated units, it seems like an odd line of criticism: they’re not saying it can never be safe for anyone ever but that in practice it isn’t safe for tens of millions of people.
by acdha - I don't care. Quality-of-life. I cook in a pan every day. Nothing but an open flame gives me the kind of control I need to cook with the precision I do. Whatever the harmful effects on my health are, that is a trade I make consciously. My life would be noticeably worse without my open-flame stove.
I'd wager anyone who opines otherwise in this thread barely cooks or doesn't cook in a serious fashion. A gas stove is a tradesman's tool.
- It’s not the flame/carcinogens that I’m most worried about personally, but instead the gas.
Oh, and I disagree with the fire being more precise than induction etc.
It’s just what you’re used to.
by DANmode - Tradesmen typically are paid to offset the health effects of their profession, but you get benzene for free.by foco_tubi
- Maybe it’s just because the gas stoves I’ve worked with are cheap, but I find them frustrating because their temperature ramps aren’t remotely linear, which can make finding exactly the right setting a pain.
- Many professional cooks who are building new kitchens are doing it with induction. Induction gives you even more precise control, especially since they can put more sensors on the cook surface since it doesn't get as hot.by jedberg
- > Nothing but an open flame gives me the kind of control I need to cook with the precision I do
Please explain how an induction cooktop doesn't give you the control and precision you need as compared to gas flame.
by jghn - I've cooked every day for 40 years. Before that, I learned to cook at home on an old fashioned electric stove with the coil elements.
Sure, the reaction time is slower. You learn to think ahead.
Nothing is optimal. The tenements that my kids lived in as students had gas stoves and zero ventilation. That couldn't have been a good idea.
Our latest stove is induction, made by LG, with control knobs. I love it. Best thing is it's easier to keep clean. I'm learning to be more reactive about turning the heat up and down, just because I can. Maybe I'll discover what I've been missing all these years.
Julia Child wrote that a home cook doesn't have to be a chef.
by analog31 - "I'd wager anyone who opines otherwise in this thread barely cooks or doesn't cook in a serious fashion."
I started my taxable life almost 30 years ago in a Chinese kitchen. I'm literally a born-in-the-fire professional cook first and foremost out of any other thing in life I do. Induction rocks, I don't know what your skill issue is. I get pots and pans hotter, way faster than gas, and the temperature control is as fast as the cooking implement can shed the excess heat. That is as fine a degree of control as you can possibly get, the only better thing would be instantaneous temperature and that's basically a thermodynamic impossibility.
by lightedman - No way. I cook everyday and induction is vastly superior than gas. The only time fire is vastly superior is when I use a wok which I have a stove I use outdoors. Most induction stoves have temperature maintained too. So it can keep your oil at a specific temperature let it be frying or confit or roasting spices.by syntaxing
- I find it significantly harder to cook with electric than gas, and the first hurdle these days is always that for some reason all modern stoves use awful touch interfaces instead of just plain knobs. I don't understand how we got there. It should be obvious to anyone that it's a terrible interface when you are trying to multitask several pots and might also have greasy handsby lkramer
- I hate it but I think the reason might be regulations? I have family who recently had to replace their stove setup, they used to have a combined oven + stovetop thing where dials on the front of the oven controlled the stovetop. They wanted the replacement to work the same way but there were no options, and when they asked, they were told it's no longer legal for the stovetop and the oven to be electrically connected in that way (or something along those lines).
No idea if it's true or if it was just an impressively creative salesperson.
But it sucks. I've accidentally burned cookware by having parts of the stovetop turn on intentionally. And sometimes, if my fingers are moist while cooking (imagine that!), the touch controls just go completely insane and I have to spend time drying my hands and the controls before I regain control over the stove.
IMO the new design with touch buttons is way more dangerous.
by mort96 - I usually hate touch controls. But for the stove I actually like them. I always hated cleaning in and around the knobs. When cooking on the stove you almost always get some sort of splatter so it is nice to clean them every time (something I often put off with knobs. So for something that so regularly gets dirty a flat surface can be very welcome.
So it is definitely a tradeoff, but I am happy I picked a stove with touch controls. Although I did pay attention that they were good touch controls (touch anywhere on the arc to set that temperature directly for example). Although there is a small annoying delay after turning on before you can set the temperature. Almost perfect.
by kevincox