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- Hacker News
- People don't tend to buy people large furniture because it's rude to assume that theyll want to keep something large and relatively permanent, much less something that requires an electrician to install.
- > 2. Confirm that their home, meter, and electricity contract are compatible.
This seems like the hardest step. The costs of "just a battery" are much lower by comparison.
by jerlam - There are two issues with the articles calculations, that end up making the already bad payback time even worse, before considering opportunity costs. Numbers are for Germany since that's the more favorable case:
1 - degradation: assuming the 15 years battery life / 10.000 cycles number from the datasheet is accurate, and that the manufacturer considers 70% capacity end-of-life, this pushes the payback time from 11.1 to 12.7 years.
2 - The article calculates the savings with:
> daily saving = 4.5 × expensive price − 5 × cheap price
but this is wrong because it assumes that grid charges fully cancel out. The article generally does a poor job at explaining this, but essentially it proposes you overbuy electricity when it's cheap and use it when it's expensive. The difference of those two, €0.133/kWh - €0.041/kWh is much smaller then the average electricity price of €0.3869/kWh because the latter also includes taxes and grid charges. So with 90% efficiency they end up with the formula above, but completely ignore the fact that from the grid's point of view, the total electricity consumption increased. On the flipside, it's also taking EPEX prices directly, pre-VAT, so you actually save 19% more then the difference 0.133 - 0.041 = 0.092. So the actual formula should be:
> daily saving = 1.19 × (5×0.9 × expensive price − 5 × cheap price) − 5 × (1−0.9) × grid charges
At a average rate of 21 cents/kWh for total grid costs (including VAT) that comes out to a payback time of 13.71 years.
So yeah, buying batteries alone doesn't make sense. You need solar or wind to charge them, so you actually avoid the grid charges. So that instead of saving 10 cents you save 40.
by Tharre - At my mother's workplace, there was a group of coworkers who each donated an amount of money per paycheck. Each paycheck, one coworker would get the lump sum that was collected for that paycheck. Similar concept to the one described here. They called it "susu" or something to that effect. If I remember correctly, it got messy when people would leave the workplace or when, occasionally, someone would get robbed on the way home.by scaredreally
- Strange article, even though the idea is nice. $200 birthday presents might be a thing in America in some circles, but for German standards that is ludicrous (even 50 bucks is quite a lot, and then you need 32 people).
I also don't get his example calculation. He mentions that average price in Germany is 38c/kWh, but in the table it's suddenly 4c min vs 13c max (or 40 vs 133?). That doesn't compute.
by hobo123 - > Create a battery birthday club. Buy each friend a battery on their birthday until everyone has one.
At that point, wouldn't it be easier if everyone just bought their own? And then whoever has the latest birthday doesn't have to wait a year to get theirs.
by Retr0id - 11-13yr payback on something that is going to degrade ~3-4%/yr for 10 years (and limited terminal value) doesn't seem like the greatest investment unless you think the arb is going to widen a ton.by balderdash
- > You are also safer during a power outage. The STREAM 5000 provides up to 3 kW of off-grid output. Keep essential devices on its backup output and reserve some battery capacity, and your refrigerator, lights, router, and laptop can keep running when the grid goes down. An ordinary grid connection does not back up the whole house automatically; the backup output must be configured correctly.
Being able to cut over your entire house from grid power to a battery requires an invasive, expensive change to most connections. I wish people would stop breathlessly promoting batteries (which are good! we need decentralized storage!) because "you can use them to run your fridge, router, etc". Yes you can, but for almost all consumers it's an order of magnitude more effort and cash compared to just buying and plugging in a battery.
by isoprophlex