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- Hacker News
- Given that I got my first computer at 12, given all the screen time with video games and programming in my youth + my day-job in software I absolutely guarantee I've clocked more hours on a computer than "with my family". I'm OK with that.
Computers have consolidated work, media, and entertainment all within the same "box" and even a good deal of close friend interactions are now mediated "on the screen".
I'm certain early hunter/gatherers would've been equally as shocked seeing factory workers "leave the home" and "constantly meet strangers".
Different praxis for different eras.
by calmbonsai - > Computers have consolidated...
Yes! Thank you for making this distinction. The problem is that some people's perceptions have not kept up, not that screens are inherently bad. Not all screen time is equal, and everyone chooses how to spend it.
This constant purity testing needs to end already. The thinly veiled politics on HN is getting more absurd by the day.
by sublinear - I agree with this take. When I add up all the films and shows I've watched, music I've listened to, books and articles I've read, games I've played, silly projects I've made, and whatnot else, it's hard to come to the conclusion I should have done something completely different for most of that time. I enjoyed myself for quite a lot of that time. I've learned quite a lot.
Sure, I can rot away and do things on the computer that doesn't really bring me joy beyond the Skinner box it can be, but that's at least somewhat on me if I fall into that trap (although we probably don't need to make more Skinner boxes for people to feel trapped by). There's a lot of things I really want to do on the computer, and I don't really see an inherent problem with that.
by Telaneo - Valid point. Using a screen for your daily work is one side. Another is sitting with family members together who are staring on a screen like zombies. I guess it’s the latter part that the author claims to be different than 10 years ago. I feel it.by sebst
- Some parents seem to believe that quality family time would spontaneously happen, if not for all those darn screens taking away all our attention and free time.
There's a tiny bit of truth in that, but sometimes parents need to actually do parenting and force their family to put down the phone or stop watching the tv and do things together.
by jerlam - My life has been more aligned with computers, and I prefer it that way. Computers don't lie, they don't pressure you. At least they respond honestly to my input, almost all the time. Everything outside of computers was awful. So I like everything that involves computers. The internet let me read and learn so much, which made computers good for me. There are downsides, like YouTube and some communities, but overall, I enjoy building things with computers and making them work.
On the other hand, the world outside computers was mostly bad—people who deceived me when I was just starting out, fraudulent contracts, and all the physical pain I went through in manual labor. Looking at it from the other side, people with real-world capital tend to have good relationships and good people around them. But for those without that capital, the world inside a computer can actually feel more real than the outside.
I've come to realize that trustworthy colleagues and respectful relationships largely depend on social status. And it feels like I don't really belong there.
Computers don't get angry when I can't do something. They don't ask me to meet some standard, and they don't get frustrated when I fail to meet it. I can learn at my own pace, doing what I want. In the past, I had to reach out to people online and exchange emails during that process, but now even that's been replaced by AI giving me answers.
For me, computers aren't a cheap substitute for human relationships. They're the infrastructure that gave me the autonomy, knowledge, and productive capability I never got from the real world.
A shelter and a prison can look the same from the outside. But I chose to be here, because this world inside the computer has been less painful than what I experienced outside.
When code fails, at least I can investigate why it failed. People, on the other hand, can twist the same words depending on relationships and power, and exclude you without ever explaining why.
That's why I like computers. At least when I turn on my computer, work on something, and see it run, I feel a sense of accomplishment, whether it's AI generated or hand written code.
Honestly, I'm not sure if having my own home or meeting someone compatible would change anything.
by jdw64 - I have close family and good coworkers but they aren't all beautiful, funny, omniscient, and available 24/7 with no reciprocal demands on me, so I only spend time with them to hedge my bets in case I get tired of the computer. Prison, shelter, how about flying saucer?by Noumenon72
- Hope you can find a place in the real world you can feel at peace in.by Gecko4072
- Yes, thankfully so. Computers probably got me out of my teens alive.by jesse_dot_id
- Music for me.
- Exactly this. That would probably not have been a good ending without the donated PC and shared ADSL connection between neighbors.
God bless Debian.
by bragh - Why is this front page? This is just a strangely framed ambiguous question. Here's more of the same: Will you have spent more of your life sleeping than with your family? Will you have spent more of your life walking than with your family? Will you have spent more of your time working than with your family? Will you have spent more of your time blinking than with your family?by 1970-01-01
- I think you’re missing the point, which is that screen time is (or, the implication is that it is) an unhealthy waste of time.
It’s uncontroversial that sleep is necessary and healthy, walking is necessary and/or healthy, working is (mostly) necessary (regardless of whether it’s healthy), and blinking is necessary and healthy.
The implication is that there’s almost zero about screen time that is healthy or necessary, with some exceptions.
And that this has become recently common. Prior to the Information Age, it was less common that we spent this much time on screens.
People that did were called “couch potatoes”.
by jader201 - Shouldn’t the title actually be “Will you have spent more of your life AT WORK than with your family”.
For white-collar jobs typically translates to, computer = work.
by alberth - This reminds me of Tim Urban's excellent post The Tail End[1] he wrote a few years ago.
He calculates that when a person reaches age 18, they have spent more than 90% of their in-person parent time. As a parent and a son, that hits pretty hard.
Obviously, YMMV.
by criddell - My dad always used to say I was addicted to screens growing up. I don't think he was far off the mark (nowadays he's as bad as me)
One time, almost all of my hobbies involved computers. I was a coder. A gamer. A writer. A digital artist. A filmmaker. I made fun Photoshop things for friends. I built websites. I did a lot of dtp. I made music with music apps. All of these things involved me staring at a screen for hours, but I don't consider them wasted time.
As I've gotten older and had kids I've tried to dial it down. I don't game anymore. I don't do social media. If I draw, it's usually with the kids on a giant sheet of paper on the floor. I spend a lot of time with my kids and it makes me happy. But even in that, I would have to concede I spend far more of my day and week in front of a screen than talking to humans.
One of the most common regrets on the death bed is "I wish I hadn't worked so hard, I wish I'd spend more time with my family", And while I don't have the benefit of 7 decades of hindsight and any clarity of mind that comes with being near death, it does seem to me like a slightly unrealistic idea, that we simply could have chosen to work fewer hours and spend more time with loved ones.
Most of us work 40 hours a week to pay the bills, and most of us can't afford to cut down that time. And I would guess for most of the people on hn, those 40 hours are spent in front of the computer.
We all have to work, and we can't all just wave a magic wand and step away from the computer and spend time with the kids instead. Otherwise said kids will end up without a roof over their head.
Yes, you probably spend more time in front of a computer than you do talking to your children, but don't beat yourself up about it
by trencedamp - It's a bit of a trap, kids are so expensive, if you dont have kids working an easier job is completely viable, but obviously you dont have the kids to spend time with, if you do have kids you need to work flat out to support them. I dont think myself and my partner will be having children, and there's a myriad of reasons for that, but the economic implications are certainly up there.
- > One of the most common regrets on the death bed is "I wish I hadn't worked so hard, I wish I'd spend more time with my family"
You are not the same person as the one on your death bed. You do not have the same priorities. The only thing left for the person on the death bed are memories, so it's natural that this is a common regret.
by UltimateEdge - I like computers more than many members of my family, so...by eqmvii
- This is heavily contingent on one's individual experiences. An uncurated modern web/mobile sounds like a hellscape - ads in one's start menu, autoplaying videos, a flood of promotional notifications from shopping apps, people arguing with bots arguing with people about populist political garbage... blech. The real question is how this compares to your family member having a few cocktails then blaming you for their divorce or getting calls from collection agencies on behalf of somebody you haven't seen in five years.
Both of these problem spaces run the gamut from solvable to intractable. Either way you have to put in some work.
by alexjplant - Don't be so hard on yourself. Yes, valid observation and time to curtail it a bit. But I think the 'stare at a screen' thing is a bit oversimplified. A computer is a medium of connection, mostly to other humans, or at least indirectly to human's work, art, etc.. So it's mostly using a tool for 'connection.' With anything, moderation is good, even moderating the moderation. But you're not staring at a brick. Don't oversimplify it.by bariswheel
- But also don’t give yourself a pass.
As you said, everything in moderation. But many people far exceed the level of moderation.
I see couples/families often sitting in restaurants on their phones.
I see people sitting at intersections on their phones.
I see people driving while on their phones.
People often walk from point A to point B but spending much of that walk on their phones.
I rarely see people waiting somewhere without having to jump on their phones.
Again, moderation is fine, but I’d argue many are well beyond that point.
by jader201 - My father spent more time in the office than with his family. My ancestors spent more time in the field than with family. My distant ancestors probably spent significant family time hunting together.
Is there any way to make the profession a family affair again?
by dotancohen - Open a restaurant?by Apocryphon
- I don't think your ancestors sat around the living room while their kids were playing threshing wheat, though. They put the plowshares down once it got dark.by lr4444lr
- Run a family business, but probably best you don't. Every family business I have worked for was basically walking into an intellectual MMA match of endless bickering amongst them. Apart time can be a good thing in moderation.by ColdStream
- Time in the field would have been spent with family, too. Women used to weave and spin loom for clothing as they walked, and developed tools for it. Families used to include the children in the field work when possible, in rural areas. In addition, families working the fields used to spend less time working than modern adults do, not more[1]
> The ancien règime in France is reported to have guaranteed fifty-two Sundays, ninety rest days, and thirty-eight holidays. In Spain, travelers noted that holidays totaled five months per year.
One of the reasons why children, teens, and young adults have become so infantalised is because they are socialised mostly around each other, and spend a lot of time being told "no you can't, you are a child". This is not a call for children to enter the mines, and I do not wish to see child labour laws repealed (as they are apparently being in some parts of the USA). But for children to be socialised correctly, they must maintain connections with people of all ages, both older and younger — all benefit from such an arrangement. For them to grow up, they must be treated as people, and given age-appropriate responsibility and inclusion in the tasks that adults do. It is harder to teach a teenager to wash the dishes and their clothes, than it is to ask for a child's help washing the dishes and your/their clothes. The children are happy to help and to be included, you get to teach them rudimentary tasks, and it counts as family bonding time. The alienation of children from adults, and the alienation of children from their parents' work, is a great loss to society as a whole.
[1]: https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_...
by fao_ - The sentiment is valuable but screens <-> family comparison bleeds too much into the polarization camp for shock value. "Time spent doing X" as opposed to Y will always have shock value. We sleep too much. Too much time reading on the toilet.
My main pushback is solitude. I don't actually want to timemaxx family interaction or any human interaction. I don't want to be the only one on the planet either, we need one another. But a life well-lived includes deep experiences in solitude if you ask me.
EDIT: and another thing! human interaction here focuses entirely on the living and the related. Why? Human connection can span all of humanity. And it should.
by apsurd - > EDIT: and another thing! human interaction here focuses entirely on the living and the related. Why? Human connection can span all of humanity. And it should
You don't think society has mostly trended towards "everyone but those nearest to us"? You dont think solitude is related to this? Or antisocial behavior and opinions?
by 627467 - I agree with most of what you said, however a big point of contention would be that the activities most people tend to spend time doing solo on their computer, do not tend to engender the types of "deep solitude experiences" you talk about