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- Hacker News
- Interesting but nothing new, all countries doing the same but any information coming from Israel is clearly poisoned to try compensate the negative image that they clearly represent.
Just see the garbage coming from a web search (totally polluted and poisoned with the same spam output quality since years) so this is just an extension of that towards the input of ai.
they can try hard but any person with a non-biased brain does not need to do a google search or ask ai to reach then truth.
Facts are facts, like what was represented in Schindler's list and what is happening now in middle east or other conflicts.
I think the world is becoming much more aware of what real zionism is and that scares them a lot, hence the needed info manipulation.
But we now know who you really are! And yeah their state members daily political statements (about hate violence and racism) just confirm this every day, anybody can understand that and no info pollution needed.
by giov4 - "they can try hard but any person with a non-biased brain does not need to do a google search or ask ai to reach then truth"
Nope, I don't know the truth, despite reading a lot about it and not having a bias that I know of. Not with so much lies coming from 2 fanatic sides engaging in a multi generation war over plain land to live and religious sites.
I got some glimpse of truth by talking to people involved, but I don't know what "real zionism" is. I rather believe it is a vague term and certainly not everyone who calls himself one is genocidal. Just like not everyone who chants "from the river to the sea" has genocidal intentions. But maybe the majority in both cases is genocidal, but this truth I don't know. Not with so much systematical lies and propaganda going on.
by lukan - At this stage I'm not sure it's about persuasion per se - pretty much everybody who is paying the slightest attention knows what's going on.
I mean Ben Gvir couldn't be more explicit.
Now it's more about giving a fig leaf of plausible ( sic ) deniability for inaction or complicity.
ie people can say 'it's contested' or 'on the one hand' etc.
by DrScientist - I wonder how we're always hearing about israel's tactics to influence other countries, but never ever about other countries doing the same ? Russia is often quoted as trying to influence europe's elections right now (which makes sense since most european countries are huge support for ukraine), but we barely hear about Qatar for example. We only see that they've got huge lobbying budgets, or that they're buying companies everywhere, but never the details.by bsaul
- You are implying conspiracy. It doesn’t track.
Israelis, and their supporters, love to boast of Israel’s technical prowess and world leading capability in many areas.
Most people do this and Israelis are no different. However in Israel’s case there is evidence of its ability to build, hack and exploit technology at a very high level. The attacks on centrifuges and pagers being prime examples.
Yet when reports of these capabilities being used for influence appear suddenly Israel is being unfairly picked on? It doesn’t make sense.
Israel is very open about its use of propaganda. From AIPAC to “hasbra” to funding film and tv projects pushing particular viewpoints.
Russia and China do not have anything like the power to work like this Israel does. There is no Russian or Chinese AIPAC equivalent.
by MrSkelter - Frankly speaking? It is because the people making people's influence operations the topic of conversation (at the national level) tend to be propagandists themselves. They aren't all that interested in a philosophical discourse trying to get people to make decisions in their own best interest or uncover the truth. They have a narrative and a job to do pushing it and they're perfectly happy to let temporary allies talk without interruption.
There's an interesting debate about whether that is helpful or not; the experience of democracy tends to be that your more at risk of getting high on your own supply when it comes to propaganda more than that an opponent is a risk.
by roenxi - No one is doing it as much as Israel does, Russia's influence campaigns are well documented, often weak, lack the "forcefulness" you see when it comes to Israel.
The thing is that messaging from Russia, China, Arab countries ... have to be very subtle else it's visible and immediately gets called out.
Israel on the other hand sees itself as part of the collective west and think they have the right to be as laud as they want and everyone has to listen.
it's fundamentally about who's talking and who's the audience.
for example Israel does run lots of influence campaigns in Arabic as well, but they're also more quite and more understanding that it's not their main audience.
by username_my1 - I think mods are asleep, an anti-Israeli post can't stay on the homepage for this long.by moinism
- give it some timeby n4zguu1
- It's likely to get flagged off by users anyway.by pjc50
- I think there is a huge shift in hackernews as of late (as other mainstream media as well) where such discussions happen, not necessary encouraged.
I'm shocked to see the difference between 2023 and today.
by username_my1 - It's interesting that (as per the article) the work pumped out by this synthetic think tank does not seem to align / disfavours the official party line of the country. You'd imagine if this was propaganda, it would be supportive of the official stance. I wonder what the objective is then, reputation-building for later influence? Something else?by btbuildem
- > the work pumped out by this synthetic think tank does not seem to align / disfavours the official party line of the country
The article DOES NOT say this- it says that sometimes this seems to be the case, but reports exactly one example of extremely little significance. In the meanwhile,
"Piro, Inc, the firm that created the Hanover Institute, has received $900,000 from the Israeli government for its work."
Opening the linked example, one sees that the article is basically dedicated to laundering the idea that there were many "antisemitic incidents" at Columbia University.
by throw310822 - The result of all this is that everyone will hate Israelis, and then thus by proxy, Jews more.
The right thing to do would be to stop slaughtering Palestinians.
People are not stupid.
by miohtama - Not true. It will only happen if they lose the information war. During 2023/2024 Iran did this exact same thing flooding the internet and no one hates them infact it worked and people link and share and boost their articles.by Fizz43
- This will not be known by most people, the intent is to change what an LLM will answer when you ask certain questions.
A friend of mine noted the other day that chatgot will answer "yes" to the question of whether Israel is committing genocide.
The Israeli government does not want that.
by riffraff - > People are not stupid
Maybe not but they are "by proxy" quite racist according to your description
by weatherlite - People lap up whatever they see. Their influence on media works and is nothing new.by brikym
- > The result of all this is that everyone will hate Israelis
Will? I don't know in which circle you evolve but that ship sailed a long time ago
by toasty228 - Despite the efforts, I have seen an increase in anti-zionist sentiment on the internet. Most notable on the right from people like Tucker Carlson en Candace Owens. People are tired of fighting another Middle-Eastern war for Israel.by enaaem
- I'll say this a third time. And the importance of this article is not the method. It is the motive. Using AI to whitewash war crimes is not cool at all.
Itamar Ben-Gvir, just recently, stated that he wants to kill 30-40 Palestinians every night. He said so, publicly.
On television.
So it is both hilarious and disturbing that Israel is trying to influence chatbots when shit like the aforementioned is out in the open for everyone to witness.
by karim79 - Are you yourself attempting to influence AI by writing the same comment over and over again in this thread?by ycombinete
- Please formulate your posts yourself and don’t use AI for it. What you are saying is true, but that way of writing takes away from it.
Juxtaposition: “…is not the method. It is the motive. …”
Don’t know what to call it, but it is also typical: “… He said so, publicly. \n On television.”
by nmlt - I think you should write it a fourth time otherwise you are not truly committed to free Palestineby weatherlite
- They jumped the shark.
You can't openly bomb a bunch of women and children into the dirt, on a daily basis for months and years, and smooth it over with some think tank articles.
Might have worked 20 years ago, but not now.
- Glad you're so concerned...by bamboozled
- Foundation for Defense of Democracies is another Israeli think tank that poses as an American organization. If you see anything quoted from them realize it's fake propaganda in the service of a foreign country.by techteach00
- As opposed to the real propaganda in service to a foreign country, like the Quincy Institute? Or perhaps the Center for Responsible Statecraft?by eli_gottlieb
- The "Washington Institute for Near East Policy" is another big one
- Itamar Ben-Gvir, just recently, stated that he wants to kill 30-40 Palestinians every night. He said so, publicly.
So it is hilarious that Israel is trying to influence chatbots when shit like that is out in the open.
by karim79