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- Hacker News
- I still think there's some junction between software and the physical world that's the next exciting frontier. There's a whole new world opening up that we've never been able to tackle before. Imagine a world where we can shift all these bright folks from working on ads and SaaS to working on new materials discovery, fundamental sciences, healthcare access, climate change, etc. Working to make the world around us a better place.
We can now build apps with a TAM of 1 or 2 viable at scale - I still have hope there's a lot of good we can do for the world with that new reality. Purpose-built tools for super niche, high-impact problems, where software isn't the end goal, it's just a means to an end.
What do you think? Still meaningless?
by kadhirvelm - Sorry, it was always meaningless. The shiny toys just distracted our attention enough to trick us into thinking there's a golden pot at the end of the rainbow. But now we can reach the end of the rainbow and it's emptiness.
Read Ecclesiastes: "Vanity of vanities; all is vanity." Everything under the sun is vain, as we will all eventually find out.
Nothing will satisfy us because our emptiness was never meant to be filled with code, knowledge, or whatever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlvOrTq4Bes
by vanity0 - I agree that AI is a gamechanger in many ways, however it is not the end of life or the end of civilization. Life will go on, and people will be happy productive members of society, even with AI becoming part of everyday life - at least that is what I believe, since believing the alternative would be self defeating.
When I think back to the 90s when the internet became popular, to me, living in the middle of nowhere, being able to interact with others through a computer, it was such an exciting time and it is what got me into programming. I believe right now today, there will be young people who may, just like me, be super excited about this AI thing, want to learn more about it, become a wielder of it, with all the energy and hope that comes with youth, just like when I discovered the internet. To them AI is not a "learn this new thing or you are going to be left behind", but it is probably something that gives them hope.
Even older people can do this. I remember when I was 16 a taxi driver, probably in his 50s asking me to tell him about this internet thing: "what should I do to learn the internet?". I fondly remember this driver since he seemed to have such an innoncent interest and willingness to learn from this 16 year old who didn't know anything himself.
Even with AI, as good as it is now, as well as with it becoming better, people will be part of the process. Although I'm nostalgic about how software used to be created, I'm trying to embrace the new way of doing things and look for new opportunities and a way how I can make a difference, with a positive outlook - this has never failed for me in the past.
by ryuuseijin - Young People Hate AI CEOs So Passionately That It's Almost Hard to Believe
- I think the phenomena we are experiencing is "change". That's what change looks like. Out with the old, in with the new. It feels like nothing matters only because this is all happening too fast.
Since we are talking about AI, I'll bring up one thing that hasn't changed, or hasn't been solved at least by AI. Understanding. We are producing so much more than ever, yet we are not understanding the world better.
You can experiment it yourself, just because you have the world's knowledge at your fingertips doesn't make you an expert in every field. I asked an LLM to teach me everything I need to know about batteries so I can get into the business. All the information is there, a well crafted curriculum. The amount I didn't know that I didn't know before starting is depressing.
Extend this to the idea that now everyone knows everything about everything and you'll quickly realize that we still don't understand much about anything despite this powerful tool on our hand.
Understanding things still matters.
by firefoxd - So the next step is to make machines understand the things it needs to understand to solve the problems we care about.by thomasjeff1
- A lot of the old world's benefit was the gatekeeping of (legitimate) knowledge and understanding. You had to spend a lot of time to grok it, and you could then exploit this for money.
LLMs completely kill this gatekeeping, for good or bad. And we're seeing the after effects. I don't know how to feel about this.
by unified101 - I thought I was the only one, so burnt out from software engineering I am glad to be out of a job. I am starting to have physical revulsion at the thought of it, and I have been dealing with the fact that I have even lost my fun time in front of the PC, playing games or browsing. These days I literally feel better doing the dishes than opening Steam or watching YouTube.
If it’s only me, I can say it’s burnout and depression, if it’s an entire class of people, then the world is sick.
As for AI, I have mellowed in my extreme doomer position, though I still believe people have unrealistically high expectations and the reality of it is gonna hit tech very hard in the face soon.
Perhaps AI has instilled into me an appreciation for the human creativity, and humanity as a whole, and there’s not much of it to be found online. The Internet was an exciting place where we came to develop our nerdy selves, and today we find having to accept it has become a smelly, dirty shanty town with open air sewer, everybody hustling for a coin. It’s time to unplug.
by sph - I did my taxes on paper instead of digitally this year because of the same anti-computer feeling. It’s a very magnificent feeling, I do find it kind of interesting how I came to feel this way.by comment0r
- > enable cheats in a game
Great analogy. Life does not have cheats though. Things are changing fast but the limits of physics still apply and reality has a surprising amount of detail[1].
I find myself feeling the way you are feeling when I stop making things. When I'm making things it is very clear where the limits and frontiers have moved to, and that's where the fun is. I would say just start exploring and making things and you'll soon see that "you can do anything" is not true. There is still enormously fun work to be done and puzzles to be solved, with the help of AI or without it.
[1] http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-...
by chr15m - This is a form of ego death and should be taken seriously.
Your/our place(s) in society have been shaken up like dice in a cup...and someone may not even care to pour them out and see what numbers come out.
What are you like when no one is watching?
Like any death, it will re-arrange your values.
Fortunately existentialist philosophers have been grasping with this for some time.
The secret is you have to make your own meaning. It can be scary. Don't freak out. You've essentially been forced to become a radical non-conformist.
Also: the ego usually reassembles itself like the robot in Saturn 3. It just comes back a little different, a little more mature. And often it's grateful for every good thing you've ever done for yourself and others.
by diydsp - ^hell yeah! thxby quaverquaver
- Sound advice.by iJohnDoe
- > The secret is you have to make your own meaning.
Existentialism is one approach, or you can turn towards Camus and accept life has no ultimate meaning, and live intensely despite that knowledge.
- I used to contribute to large open source projects. I don’t anymore. I used to read books about various programming languages and CS topics, thinking it would all help advance my career somehow. I perceive all of these activities as too risky now. It takes away time I could spend with loved ones or on other topics I enjoy. I think the best engineers combine advanced CS knowledge with LLM tool use, but the ROI on obtaining that knowledge is much less certain now. Now I have a much higher threshold for what I spend time/money on, other than hobby stuff… if it doesn’t directly lead to some return (like investing) or a chance at some entrepreneurial success, it’s not worth bothering about these days imo. Probably was never a good choice, but contributing to open source projects with the hope it will advance your career is a fool’s errand these days, same goes for useless side projects and leetcode. I don’t think I’m articulating my feelings on this very well, but hopefully you get the gist.by EmeraldSky
- I think one aspect of this relates to extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation.
I'm intrinsically motivated to work on my software projects because I want them to exist, and I enjoy exploring the problem space and working my way to a good solution. AI is great because it accelerates my abilities in this regard.
If I'd had only extrinsic motivations of credit and money, I can see that AI would affect them negatively. But I'd also have to believe that anyone else could AI-shortcut their way to whatever I make. I don't really believe that TBH. A real solution is extremely nuanced: it addresses many, many edge cases; it is performant in CPU and memory use; its UX steers the user away from incidental complications straight to the solution they're seeking. Being able to attend to all that doesn't seem everyone's cup of tea.
Finally, even if someone just copied whatever I had made, I would still have the satisfaction of knowing I was the original and they the copycat. That's good enough for me.
by kranner - > I'm intrinsically motivated to work on my software projects because I want them to exist
Isn't that extrinsic motivation? You're motivated by the desire to bring something outside of yourself into existence. The software project doesn't exist within you.
by maplethorpe - I envy your enthusiasm. I sincerely enjoyed being proficient at something that was hard to replace, and still feel pride for it. There's still avenues like that, but they've grown thinner and it's not as one-sided. I'm still very happy to be in this field and keep toiling away, but with less joy.by xpct
- >Is it that I want it to be done? Would it have been done if I didn't? (Additionality)
>Is it that I want to have done it? Would I be happy if someone else did it? (credit)
>Is it that I want to be doing it? (achievement/process)
>I want to have a mix. I want to do some things for the experience and some things for the accomplishment. I want to do some easy things and some hard things. Some fun things and some unfun things. Some things just for me and some things for others.
Amit Patel, via https://digitalseams.com/blog/amit-patel-on-making-things
by bobbiechen - It is often easy to fear the unknown. When you don't have a concrete fear or example it is easy to make the worse scenario in mind. And every reassurance can be swept away with a "But what if..".
The way I see it is that we are in Year 1/2 of the AI era. We can already see the issues too.
* Github can't keep up with the commits
* AI data centers build out being increasingly challenged
* Electricity grids unable to keep up the pace
Now all of this doesn't mean AI is not revolutionary. It absolutely is. It is to say that the pace of change will be slower
Also, I believe learning new CS concepts and side projects are still going to matter. Because as much as today is about anyone can code the long term challenge is going to be running and maintaining it the said code.
by thisisit - Corollary to your complaints: Another downside that I haven't seen on anyone's AI hatelist yet is that it crowds out all other discussion. What happened to everyone talking about languages, protocols, algorithms, architecture, etc.? We can't have those conversations anymore because we're not even sure they matter now. In fact, we probably suspect they don't, hence the not bothering.
Also, anything we do write will just get immediately slurped into AI embeddings, anonymizing it and detaching it from its human source, at most nudging some corner of its vectorized slurry. Maybe someone will ask a question that our content influences, but if that user bothers to thank anyone, he'll thank Claude. Perhaps this is what it feels like to be fully commoditized, fully alienated from one's labor.
by bm3719 - This Ask HN received 116 points and was on the front page. How come it vanished from the front page, the 2nd page and so forth here on HN?
This is important topic to a huge portion of HN readers and to see how were feeling / thinking during these times of uncertainity.
by paul7986 - why write programming languages if LLMs are fast enough to talk plaintext everything to eachother with perfect memory
- We need to start talking about real Software Engineering concepts. The stuff we will write to guide agents to build our software.
We will be building architectural blueprints for software "buildings" same as Civic Engineers and Architects do for bridges and towers.
by xtracto - To go along with that, it's also crowding out a whole generation's worth of labor and innovation. We're not curing cancer, we're churning out TPS reports faster and drowning in Show HN shovelware.
- Yes I've noticed that too. It seems accomplishments in general have been devalued, it's not specific to languages, protocols, algorithms or architecture. If I have some idea at work, I feel like even that receives less recognition now because of AI. AI has ideas too, what does it matter? Sure, your idea could be good. But we are already drowning in ideas from AIs, everytime you prompt an AI it will tell you dozens of ideas on what you could improve. Who can say which one matters, does any of it really matter anymore? Why care about things that are effortless? That's the impression I get in regards to how people think now.by Nathanba
- Yes, all that and more. It doesn't feel to me like cheats are available, it feels like a cheater has entered the game and there is no point in taking the game seriously anymore.
I heavily invested into dream of learning throughout all my life and benefiting from it financially and socially. Now it seems that won't come to be true. I've always been taught since childhood that the important things are those that you can carry in your head, because no one is going to take it away from you. I guess now they are wrong, while it cannot be taken directly it can be heavily debased to the point of pointlessness of having it.
On top of that, the enshittification of everything tech-related, tightening grip on privacy. Quality collapse, not just what I am doesn't have any value, but nothing produced by anyone does. For example, I don't consider reading books that came after ~2024. On top of that, fear of bigger changes and turmoils related to redistribution of wealth (always upwards, of course), dystopic vision of the future. On top of that, war in my country with no end in sight and shifts to authoritarianism.
I'm trying to find a way out of this, and I'm finding interesting observations. For example, one shouldn't overinvest themselves into anything - "never keep all you eggs in the same basket", because nothing is permanent. For me that was the idea of continuous self-improvement that would allow me to keep both a fulfilling job and middle-class lifestyle. It was the most important thing in life, and, of course, when it shattered the pain was substantial. It is possible to find and have other important things in life, some of them could be friends, family, community.
Then, no one is going to take away what you do with your mind, especially in free time. You could give up on everything AI related and just enjoy the things you like. Maybe on the worse side of job market there won't be much apart from mercenaries, drug dealers and prostitutes. But in all better cases there's going to be something to occupy yourself with and live relatively serene life. Janitor, any kind of manual laborer that cannot be automated, small farmer, to name a few that came to mind. In free time (or during work even) you could read/listen to anything you like.
And then, this is just the baseline, things could actually turn out better.
by frankie_t