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- Hacker News
- > Web distribution, which is available only in the EU ... require every alternatively distributed app to go through Notarization — a baseline review focused on basic functionality and protection from serious threats.
This is quite a big change for EU users. What I don't understand is how Apple will track the new 5% commission for web distributed apps. You do need to register for the programme, so maybe that is one way they track businesses and get a right to audit their books.
by arpinum - > What I don't understand is how Apple will track the new 5% commission for web distributed apps.
My understanding is that it's based entirely on self-reporting by developers.
by lapcat - >What I don't understand is how Apple will track the new 5% commission for web distributed apps.
My guess: since all apps will need to be notarized, even web distributed ones, your phone will phone home to Apple servers when you first launch it (and periodically afterwards), to verify it isn’t in a revocation list. That will allow Apple to track unique installs and then bill the Apple developer account based on pricing data reported by the web distributor as part of their separate agreement with Apple.
by fiatpandas - It also seems they are very strict regarding who can notarize their apps.
> Companies will now qualify if they:
> * Meet a moderate financial-stability bar as scored by Dun & Bradstreet. > * Are publicly traded or owned by a publicly traded company. > * Have received venture funding from an established investment firm. > * Have completed a financial audit by a licensed accountant. > * Are a government entity, educational institution, or nonprofit.
by adrian_m - European Commission caved in, developers lost.by zoobab
- I’m not sure that’s how I’d characterise it. I think this is a positive step for consumers in the EU.
I’d argue that it is Apple who have backed down here.
by lsxr - Well at least 10x better than in the US nowby mnewme
- Has the commission confirmed that these changes "resolve Apple’s disagreements with the Commission" or is that just like... Apple's wishful thinking.
I definitely recall previous iterations where Apple announced changes to comply with legal requirements where the authorities ended up saying "this absolutely doesn't resolve the issue".
by gpm - I don't even understand how these could be acceptable terms for the european commission:
This is just basic racketering. You owe nothing to Apple, you don't use their resources, then they could still profit of their dominant position on these devices to extort such a high fee (because 5% is not a small amount) from app developers and users.For apps distributed via alternative app marketplaces or the web, Apple will charge a 5 percent Core Technology Commission.by greatgib - What development toolkit will you use to make your App for the iPhone? Why should Apple be giving that away for free?by NetMageSCW
- This press release details terms which are both a) expressly forbidden in the Digital Rights Act, and b) which have been previously rejected by the Commission. To read now that the Commission approves of these terms is unbelievable to me. I rarely put on a tinfoil hat, but either the Commission has been paid off, or there are some geopolitical discussions we are not privy to. I can see no other explanation.
I have been following this legislation from the beginning. [My one and only submission to Hacker News was regarding exactly this.](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32163704) I have followed progress judiciously. If the Commission agreed to these terms, there is something deeply troubling and sinnister about this. At minimum, these terms are hostile to customers, the market, and developers. Everyone loses here except Apple.
by Gareth321 - EU is one of most corrupt places.by blueTiger33
- I wouldn't be surprised if the reason the Commission agreed to it was better to have a shitty deal now, than to let Apple drag this through the courts for a decade.
The EU is notoriously bad at enforcing its laws, from GDPR to this.
- Current administration is strong arming europe in a lot of ways, and it has had impact on how EU Commission handles their own laws at the execution level for DMA, DSA, and probably even GDPR against American companies.
Rumor is that they EU Commission even has to work on the weekends, and it's not a joke.
by tehlike - Not knowing anything detailed about the acts, which terms are you referring to? Notarization?by bonzini
- I wonder if there's any statement on this from the Commission?by IsTom
- I'd been saying "there's geopolitical/hidden reasons" for ages. The very first one for me was when Apple did that CSAM stunt. Fortunately the outrage was enough for them to peddle back, but it was such an out-of-left-field thing to do that I struggle to imagine 3 letter agencies weren't involved.
In this case (where Apple has power), my guess would be more along the lines of "Apple's found a lot of vulns and are ready to patch it; agencies offered a concession in exchange (and either arm twisted EU and/or gave them access to the same vulns)".
The funniest thing is there's no reason for any of this to be wrong. Individual parts have been public knowledge for a while, and putting them together doesn't take a lot of logic.
Fun reading, if you haven't read it already:
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/08/apple...
by user_7832 - Apparently they followed an "alternative" reading of the DMA concluding that unless you prove the fees or other obstacles would make alternative distribution commercially unviable or discriminatory, everything is just fine. Isn't it "interesting" how do many of these EU regulations always have these side doors that allow the very practices they promoted to adress?by PeterStuer
- As I understand it:
> A person buys a handheld computer
> I make a program for the computer
> A person downloads the program directly onto their computer
> A person makes a purchase for services within my app on their computer
> Somehow Apple gets 5% of the proceeds, despite being entirely uninvolved except for the initial sale of goods
An analogous situation would be Mercedes-Benz demanding 5% of every ride booked in a taxi they manufactured, for the reason that they have to continue to make and sell parts for the vehicle, and everyone (including the EU) somehow being A-OK with it.
by theodric - What software did you use to make a program on your computer that runs on the iPhone? Who pays for that software?by NetMageSCW
- I buy s Mercedes Benz. I want a warranty. I am forced to use an authorised service provider who’s expensive af and I risk losing the warranty otherwise. How is that not anticonsumer? I crash said car, the insurer will not insure my car until it’s fixed by an authorised technician. How is that not anticonsumer.
- But mercedes benz makes sure all the taxi desinations are safe!by knollimar
- They do it because they can. You're signaling that you're OK with it by continuing to buy Apple products.by weberer
- More details in the developer portal: https://developer.apple.com/support/apps-in-the-eu/
It seams that for "reader apps" (like Netflix / Spotify), things got slightly better (https://developer.apple.com/support/reader-apps/#:~:text=16....):
> Beginning October 1, 2026, reader apps distributed in the EU may promote out-of-app offers for digital goods and services without an actionable link [...]
So you can now at least promote your offers, which was forbidden previously.
A reader app is, in Apples words: "With reader apps, people can sign in to their account created outside the app, letting them view and enjoy previously purchased media content or content subscriptions on their Apple device."
by hoechst - > For users under 13 years old, apps from the App Store cannot link out to websites for transactions to protect against the risk of scams that target younger kids.
Lol - I've been using the phrase "casino games for children" to describe Apple's primary App Store cash cow since I first heard someone use it since it describes the genre so well. And I just realized this latest policy is them saying "Nobody exploits children with casino games but us!"
by xp84 - It's still a steal, I'm really sad that european union settled on this terms. 15% cut on purchases outside the app store THAT'S CRAZY !!
I'm so shocked to read this "Each of these commissions reflects the many ways Apple creates value for developers’ apps, whether they use the App Store and/or Apple In-App Purchase." whereas it's app developpers that create value for Apple.
Without apps, Apple platform is dead.
by tokarf - This is just speculation, but I suppose it's because Apple is also collaborating/contributing in the EU Chat Control 2.0 legislation, so they may have some argument that completely opening the door for uncontrolled app installs may not allow them to comply with such legislation.
As I said, just speculation, but this is how most of the time these things go
by XzAeRosho - While the app store was a much better deal than ISP stores for the smartphones when it was introduced, Apple's hubris is too much and, almost no app developers care about VisionPro exactly because of that, it isn't only the price.by pjmlp
- What I've always found strange about this saga is that Apple's argument has been "we need to be reimbursed for our investments in R&D and maintenance of the App Store". I don't disagree, that seems fair. But they already DO charge explicitly for this... it's the developer program fee. Is this not the exact mechanism they should be using? As far as I can tell the court case didn't broach this.by dbbk
- They use technical means to create lock-in that prevents me from NOT using these services.
Apple actively prevents users from installing any other OS on an iPhone. Apple actively prevents uses from finding and installing apps through other means.
I'd be okay paying App Store fees when I had a choice, and decided that it's the best source of apps, worth the cost. But because I'm forced to pay for a service I didn't ask for, fuck Apple.
(and the mobile duopoly, ecosystem lock-ins, and barriers to entry mean I can't really refuse this shit, I can only choose one of two flavors of this shit).
by pornel