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- Hacker News
- Is there a tradition for this blog post to appear every 2 years?
2024, 253 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40103590
2022, 271 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32035054
2020, 298 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25136422
- [2020]
previous discussions:
- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25136422
by alpn - Thanks! Macroexpanded:
I should have loved biology (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40103590 - April 2024 (253 comments)
I should have loved biology - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32035054 - July 2022 (271 comments)
I should have loved biology - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25136422 - Nov 2020 (298 comments)
by dang - >How come we memorized chemical formulas but didn’t talk about that [exciting stuff about developmental biology]
You can argue that about any subject. People want to take physics and learn stuff about black holes but instead the intro courses are about balls rolling down inclined planes and other such "boring" things. But you have to know the basics before you can understand the "cool" stuff!
by jhbadger - I had a similar experience with nature. My dad was the outdoors type, a conservation officer who loved hunting & fishing; I wanted nothing more than to be inside reading an encyclopedia. I have always liked science, but biology was just one subject among many.
When I became an adult, I gravitated to computers because there is so much to learn about them. My focus has been infrastructure, but I've picked up software development, assembly, kernel hacking, data science, and a dozen other things along the way (mostly at amateur levels, but I'm always happy to learn).
I have have other interests (economics, homebrewing, astronomy, sociology, making music), but in each of those cases I learned what I wanted to after a few years & moved away. When covid hit, I picked up natural history through iNaturalist -- and that has so far been very very different, much more the same kind of endless opportunity for discovery that computers felt like.
There is so much weirdness in biology. Parasitic wasps with genes that came from viruses that suppress caterpillar immune systems, male spiders that have appendages (pedipalps) that look like boxing gloves, the many kinds of bumble bees around me, introduced species, nests, microorganisms -- it's insane. It's higher up the stack than the stuff the author is describing, but no less wonderfully complex and fascinating.
The quote from Lewis Thomas really hit home for me: "People ought to be walking around all day, all through their waking hours calling to each other in endless wonderment, talking of nothing except that" [cell|insect|weird relationship|phenology|behaviour]. Kudos to the author for putting this all into words so well, and for adding a dozen books to my must-read list.
- Yes, the article is about awe and the fact that there isn't enough of it because we get fed into our brains what happens "matter of fact" by the education syste, without taking time to wonder and be surprised.by jll29
- I should have studied a 'real' topic instead of computing, and then tackle issues therein (ie, in my chosen topic) using programming as a TOOL to help me realise things, and experiment.
All my career is about computing, for computing sake, now I find myself in trouble in this AI-driven world as I don't have a base to stand on, with interesting problems, and a lot of programming is just being 'generated' in a black-box.
And no, I'm not talking about becoming a major software ARCHITECT, solving deep infrastructure problems and whatnot. I'm thinking on day-to-day issues.
Whatever, just a minor rant - if it helps future generations realising that and change course, my job is done.
Cheerios
by fl4tul4 - I realized after getting a degree in engineering from CMU that I should've loved biology so I went back to school after working as a software engineer for a year and studied neurobiology. And since then, I've suggested that people early in their career should take a break and go back to school and study something totally different.by intrasight
- With what money?
- In Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance Robert M. Pirsig suggests something very similar. He makes the point that students should go and work a job before picking what to study because they'll see where the value comes from (he of course puts it in much better words)by ajmurmann
- Physics was like that as well, and from my limited experience chemistry too.
The history of physics and the theory of it is great. A Brief History of Time is an awesome read.
Studying physics is not like that. Studying formulas, applying them to situations, and of course very math heavy.
One thing I regret is the experiments as well. In physics and chemistry they were kind of a blur. Just following instructions and sometimes they didn’t work out and no one knew why. I never learned the most important thing: how to design an experiment. Following a long recipe then reading the result is much less useful than observing a thing, forming a testable, falsifiable hypothesis about that thing, and then testing it.
Last thing I’ll say is you probably aren’t going to get the “wonder” of science from a science class. Those classes are there to tell you the answers, but the most interesting part is discovering the answers yourself which is not possible in a one semester survey course.
by janalsncm - As a physics major I agree a lot with this.
Most of my courses were very "Point A" to "Point B". You're given a set of formulae, then a problem, then you use some combinations of those formulae to solve the problem. Most labs were the same way: you're given an exact script to follow without any explanation of the experiment design. It felt like both were optimized for easy instruction / grading and not for learning new skills or concepts.
Only two of the courses I took were substantially different. One was an upper division lab that actually was more open-ended, where we were given a goal and some equipment and had to figure out how to use the equipment to meet the goal. Another was a more conceptual course where we explored how to approach broad problems to come up with rough estimates for a wide variety of questions. Both were much more engaging, but I saw many students good at the typical course type struggle with how open ended these courses were.
by dividefuel - > One thing I regret is the experiments as well. In physics and chemistry they were kind of a blur.
Well, a lot of places would penalize you if your data is incorrect, so most of the focus ends up on execution rather than the why. If you were angling for a high GPA for whatever reason, you cannot afford to experiment too much during lab work. It's another case entirely of course if you are conducting research.
by Onavo - Compared to some other books on the same topic, A Brief History of Time is a poor book. It just happened to be the first popular book on the topic.
Fully agree with labs (not just science but engineering as well). 2 years into my grad program, I visited my undergrad campus and a professor asked for feedback on the education I received. I told him that all the labs need to be revamped. As taught, they were a waste of time. Virtually every lab I did went like this: "Design a circuit (e.g. amplifier) with the following characteristics. Then build it and confirm via measurements."
The challenging part was the design, which was all theoretical. It was then trivial to wire it up.
I recall one time I was given a project to build some circuit. I built it, but when the professor evaluated it, he saw the output was very fuzzy. He wanted to know if it was due to my circuit or whether the input was fuzzy. He did a bunch of interesting things on the oscilloscope to determine that it was indeed the input. Now that's the sort of stuff they should have taught us!
As for motivation for subjects like physics/other sciences. It's a challenge. As I said in a different comment, there often just isn't enough time to teach both. I think professors expect students to have some level of intrinsic motivation already. For something like physics, you really cannot reduce the math involved - most undergrad physics curricula have too little math as it is!
by BeetleB - This is one of those perennial HN favorites
https://hn.algolia.com/?query=I%20should%20have%20loved%20bi...
by srean - Yep, and given that the original author posted it in 2020, should probably be marked (2020).
- yes! I first found it on HN. The other front page piece on Thickness reminded me of it.
Always happy to pass along a good article to the next generation of Posters
by tyre - I did always love biology, not because of my teachers, but because of my own wonder of it ("I sort of get how an engine works, but how do humans work?"). And I became a biologist, and thinking about the things this author describes indeed still blows my mind. I get the high level of a lot of things now, but every time I need to do a deep dive, I feel like "how the hell can this even work". But it works, and it works incredibly well. I still think it's the nicest field to be in (even though I love computers and Linux and FOSS as well).by teekert
- Agreed, I loved my biology courses and lab work and had always had a similar sense of wonder about it all. It's interesting, I'm not sure that came from any teacher in particular and I bet there are plenty of people who just never feel it no matter how you teach the subject. That said, those are beautiful illustrations referenced in the article and they have a ton of teaching value, and I think a lot of core concepts that went over my head would have been way more accessible using tools like that.by ngriffiths
- This is a very romantic view of life sciences.
Speaking as a guy who made the pivot to research in life sciences (as a "data scientist") from "full stack software engineer", yes the data and mission is very sexy to a nerdy guy like myself, applying deep learning algorithms to spatial or epigenetic sequencing data of cancer cells to figure out the secret markers or mechanism of cancer cell mestasis or human immune response.
The realistic or unromantic view is you are a cog in the life science industrial complex where you are underpaid and under-appreciated; research often takes years and unclear if you are making progress or scamming the taxpayers like a humanities professor in women's studies (yes even STEM sometimes feels like that); and in computing, unlike tech, you are not the center of attention, most wet lab scientists treat you more like a resource, a grad student they need to make their pvalue or figure panel pop nicely versus a "full stack software engineer" - And if you don't like it, hundreds of thousands of post-doc's or grad students are waiting to take your place for their shot - not in pursing their passion but for a visa in America.
The real value I learned from my pivot from pivoting away from tech and pivoting into Biology is ironically how to gamble. I joined a Discord/Slack sub-channel for #options-trading, #sports-betting and #poker during my studies for a Masters in data science with other degenerate students who loved gambling, and how to identify, automate and size +EV plays in gambling or derivatives trading. I make more than 2-3x what I make in W-2 from my capital gains and W2-G than my W-2 for past the 6 years. But that is not put shade on biological sciences and rather giving credit to Biology for teaching me how to analyze data and gamble.
by noname123 - The unexpected conclusion here seems to be that biology taught you enough statistics to leave biology financially behind. That is interesting, although six profitable years of gambling may also encourage a rather romantic view of gamblingby interludead
- hilarious. i also made a pivot to life sciences from a hard math field and my experience was the exact same.
i make more money trading options and have way more fun! in a way - it is "real" science in a way whereas the modern Life Science Industrial Complex is anything but that.
- > humanities professor in women's studies
Better a thousand women's studies departments than one business school.
by BigTTYGothGF - The life sciences are diverse and multi gender. What a sad state of affairs this causes a crisis for modern techies.by smrtinsert
- > or scamming the taxpayers like a humanities professor in women's studies (yes even STEM sometimes feels like that);
one thing's for sure, there are certain spaces for people who lack people skills, and that seems to be associated with "STEM" skills
- > The real value I learned from my pivot from pivoting away from tech and pivoting into Biology is ironically how to gamble
Lol that took a turn, I was expecting a link to a how to course at the end; or some nfl week one picks!
by le-mark - Wild comment - first of all, the author's point is that biology should be taught better, not that it's an amazing career on the ground as it is today.
Second of all, I like how you called out the degeneracy of gambling, I can't think of any bigger contrast between the author's goals and actual application of talent. Bravo on your W-2G, society is proud.
by arcticfox - You managed to blame feminists and immigrants in one paragraph, impressive. I'm sorry to hear about your experiences tho.by ggregoryarms
- We run a microschool and our single most important realization is this. We need to allow for meaning before mechanics. Schooling has a gravitational pull that inverts this because of our obsession with Measurement.
We learn, and we can learn relentlessly, when things matter. We are meaning makers. But when well-intentioned curriculum remove the process of making meaning and give you the final product, it just takes away reasons for learning. And no matter how we dress it up, this ends up staying shallow because it is only the surface level learning that is visible and measurable and held to account.
Meaning > Motivation > Mechanics > Measurement
This is the natural order we should try to preserve despite all the systemic pulls to measure as a poor proxy for asking "are we doing our job well"
Wrote about it here: https://blog.comini.in/p/schooling-has-a-meaning-crisis-para...
by ChaitanyaSai - this is all meaningless AI nonsense. maybe you can recommend reading dostoevsky before learning the alphabet for 4 year olds. or you can realize there's a balance and meaning first is not the right strategy either. good luck with your blog.by 121789