Join the discussion
Write your take first — we'll ask for email only when you're ready to publish.
- Hacker News
- > At the same time, a parallel market in 3D printers for manufacturing was developing. These were printers that took up a whole room and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Machines that take up rooms and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars existed a decade or more (probably 20 years, if I had to guess; patents) before hobby printers. I’ve not seen one retail printer that wasn’t based on the tech from giant commercial printers. And there is definitely tech in giant commercial printers that will never be retailized (laminated object manufacturing).
by jonhohle - Yeah I think I was shown one in about 2010. A metal sintering rapid prototyping machine, I think. The RepRap was also pretty new at that time, and of course they didn't have one at that professional facility because why would they?by inigyou
- No offense to LWN -- normally, your articles are well researched and well written, but, sheesh, this one was a total word salad. The full article is 2500 words. It could easily be trimmed by 50% with judicious editing. Literally, I needed to read 1000 (!) words to find this paragraph:
I'm not here to defend Bambu's legal/technical strategy, but they are (IMHO) certainly being immoral (violating open source community standards) but not necessarily unethical (violating software license contract law). This will be a difficult case to win in court. As long as the basic slicer is functional, it is very hard to win this case. The add-ons ("extras") simply make the slicer better.> Bambu Studio would pop up a request to download "a little more stuff" with the classic choices of "Yes" or "Ask me later"; users eventually figure out that some functionality in the slicer does not work until they click "Yes". The extras that are downloaded are two .so files built from C++ source. Those shared-library files are dynamically loaded into the slicer—as can plainly be seen from the dlopen() calls in the source code that was released. - Several of the claims in the article are also not true.
Bambu Studio was open sourced on GitHub when the printers shipped to Kickstarter backers in 2022, not a year later after pressure from the community like he claims.
Bambu also has an open source page where you can download source for the GPL components in the firmware image, including the kernel. They quote a person who claims this isn’t available and he can’t find anyone to contact, but it’s the first result I see when I google “Bambu labs open source”. It took me 10 seconds to fact check.
I expect some minimal fact checking, not repetition of what someone said at a talk.
by Aurornis - If the GPL [1] got the same government support as trademark law [2], this violation would not be "ongoing". Why doesn't it? Nominally, the law protects both equally.
[1] I won't say "copyright", because if this was about pirated Marvel movies, it absolutely would be getting the same treatment.
[2] $30K Worth of Multimeters Must Be Destroyed Because They're Yellow - https://news.slashdot.org/story/14/03/19/1721253/30k-worth-o...
- What would the company need to do to comply with licensing? Release the studio, shared library, and server-side components as AGPL?by hrpnk
- Perhaps not the server-side components, unless they directly link AGPL covered code there too. No one that I've seen seems to be asking for the server side parts, just the client parts so they can use the printers locally they way they want without hacking around.
Studio is fully release IIRC, it is that "external" part which is the issue.
The linkage between that and the client should be soft enough otherwise for the server side not to inherit the responsibilities of the client. Though if part of their claims attempting to defend their current position suggest that linkage is more direct, then they are taking aim at their own foot somewhat.
by dspillett - I never used Windows, I never used Apple, I never used Adobe, I made my life harder than I needed to for my ideals...
Now I am old and have enough hobbies and want things that just work.
Got an iPad, and honestly most apps actually suck and cost monthly subscriptions plus app price, got a windows PC for music and it's horrible and full of ads.
But these 3d printers actually just work.
From a customer standpoint I can't blame them, it's sad that they can't be at least a little less evil
by herbst - Any reason why you did not choose a PRusa 3D printer ? From my experience those work well, are mucxh more open & don't do any of the stupid shit Bambu is trying to pull off.by m4rtink
- > A 3D-printing user from Poland, Paweł Jarczak, reverse-engineered the User-Agent string and network code, which resulted in a DMCA takedown notice from Bambu Lab. "GitHub, of course, honored it, because Microsoft."
Which is somewhat funny because a lot of high-impact piracy stuff is on Github and has been for years. GenP (Adobe) and Massgrave MAS (anything Microsoft) come to my mind.
by mschuster91 - > GenP (Adobe) and Massgrave MAS (anything Microsoft)
It's questionable whether those two companies care that much about piracy, they make most of their money off enterprise, right? For a while I heard it theorized that Adobe and Microsoft largely let people get away with it, since it still keeps them in the ecosystem and therefore makes them likelier to use those products at work. Versus Bambu which probably still sells mainly to random hobbyists/home users
by ipdashc - We just purchased a brand new top of the line Bambu with all the accessories, only for it to be defective on arrival. Their front panel display uses such thin fonts, it makes it almost impossible to read without glasses, and their error codes just send you in infinite loops that make you want to pull your hair out. They really spin themselves as the end all and be all to turn key professional 3d printing, and the reality has been anything but. We are currently waiting on a new part from China that will show up when whomever knows and at best, and all they could offer us a minor credit towards spending more money that doesn't even equal an hours pay.
I wish I could talk better about them, but what a let down. I really hope someone really figures out how to put the screws to them over this GPL violation.
- They are better than all the other tripe at that levelby bcjdjsndon
- That hasn’t been my experience, for me their software and hardware makes them the Apple of 3d printing. It’s something my mother could use, and everything works out of the box and is simple to maintain. The H2 series is awesomeby dgellow
- I just knew this would be about Bambu.
It is nuts that they can be fairly transparent how anti-consumer they are while still succeeding. It's really a testament to the quality of their printers, marketing, and long-term strategy.
If you want to print multi-filament without an AMS, it's a massive hassle. You need to insert custom G-code. Even though you can export raw G-code, you can't reimport it. You can insert custom G-code on the layer preview, but they expicitly disable pasting in the entry dialog. Some of the variables from the main G-code aren't accessible to the filament G-code.
The "easiest" way to do this is to insert a G-code pause where you want a filament change (if you use the layer "Pause" you can't control the extruder anymore until the print resumes) and then manually moving the extruder gears (to unload and then again to purge) and then resuming the print manually.
"No non-AMS filament changes" has been a complaint on both GitHub and the Bambu forums. OrcaSlicer doesn't have these problems. Obviously Bambu has an economic disincentive to make easy filament changes without an AMS, but it would be nice to have a good printer as well as intuitive (or at least hackable) software.
by PennRobotics - Bamboo has been sketch and proprietary since the beginning. It's such a shame to see the maker community get sucked in (though I guess there is precedence wrt Fusion et.al.)by ramblurr
- Some people like to use tools to make something possible/easy. Others like the tools themselves.
The Bambu printers, at the time of their release, were an incredibly superior pieces of hardware and software that was priced very very well and, this was a really big deal, worked fully right out of the box.
It was a pretty clear choice in either dicking around with the tools, or actually using the tool to make things. They caused a huge shift in the industry because it was silly to NOT buy a Bambu, if you wanted to actually make things.
I love open source software, but I also know that a team of focused, dedicated, high skill, engineers, who are financially motivated with big paychecks, to do well, will often do a better job making something proprietary than a bunch of volunteers doing it for fun, on the weekends. Ffs, we didn't get a half ass implementation (thanks to shite 8 bit boards everyone was using) of motion/vibration compensation in all the open source firmwares, a tech from the 1960's, until right before Bambu's release. It's still not available in most. Pressure compensation was still relatively new.
by nomel - I blame the other 3d printer makers: Anycubic, Ender, Creality, etc.
Bambulab is far from the first player enter the market, or even the "budget" segment, but they still somehow captured it. Only till recently the others begin offering something that can compete with bambu's machine.
Turn out the demand for a good 3d printer, that you only need to do very basic tuning, and does not break your bank account, is very high. Who could've guessed ?
by mrheosuper - It was really depressing when I realized that people will buy a sketchy product which is hurting the community and makers of non-sketchy products because "its cheaper and its not like my purchase is gonna change things one way or another."
It is selfish and short sighted, and it leaves their future impoverished, but in the moment they "got a good deal."
by ChuckMcM - The Chinese tech industry is built upon a foundation of GPL violations.
There is no way to stop it beyond getting CBP to block imports, which effectively amounts to shunning.
- So? The AI industry is built upon a foundation of copyright violations and nobody seems to care anymore.by amelius
- They built on a foundation of not respecting US intellectual property; copyright licenses were also ignored.by ZiiS
- I think the Bambu case is a good one to litigate the AGPL but perhaps should start in the Court of International Trade. That court has the power to block imports as part of a TRO which would shut down a lot of their revenue from the US at least. Doing something similar in Europe would also help apply pressure. Takes lawyers and money though, of which there is certainly not enough of the latter.
Not to be too glib here, but its one of the paradoxes of "free software" which is there isn't any money generated by the licenses that keep it free. Where as "licensed" software has a revenue stream that is used to enforce the license against people who fail to honor it. The FSF can only do so much with their budget here.
by ChuckMcM - > I think the Bambu case is a good one to litigate the AGPL but perhaps should start in the Court of International Trade.
IMHO that kind of stuff would have to go through the WTO but unfortunately Trump gutted that one already way back in his first term.
by mschuster91 - The article mentions reverse engineering the code.
But is there anything to stop reverse engineering the physical printer itself, improving on it by 10mm build volume in each direction, and releasing that?
It won't be a copy of the Bambu printer AND it can run the same software, truly freely.
by _carbyau_ - The article says the SFC had a fundraiser and raised over $250,000 to hire a lawyer.
There's a confusing part of the article where he says that what he believes is a violation is something that a judge isn't going to care about. I don't know if he's implying that the judges aren't capable of interpreting the AGPL properly, or if he's admitting that the legal argument isn't as solid as they thought it was when they started. It's a confusing thing to say next to the broad claims about violations.
by Aurornis - For current owners who want to avoid Bambu's servers entirely, consider LAN mode with OrcaSlicer and this open source reverse engineered networking plugin: https://github.com/ClusterM/open-bamboo-networking
I have verified that my P2S in LAN mode never attempts to make external connections at all (blocked it anyway, of course) and OrcaSlicer + this plugin never attempts to connect to any of Bambu's servers.
My P2S is easily the best printer I've ever had, they really do make incredible machines, it's a shame they have created this ridiculous situation just to (as far as I can tell) collect telemetry.
by hamdingers - Oh shit, I didn’t realize that had been cracked. Nice, I’m gonna switch ASAP.
I bought a P2S, and then literally a few days later, the X2D came out. Thanks Microcenter, and your excellent customer service and return policy. The X2D is everything the P2S is, but with another nozzle.
by sgarland - Is it faster to send prints than using the cloud Bambu service?by simooooo
- This part gives me hope, but I have not been able to find the certificate:
Option B: cloud mode without Developer Mode
Starting with v2.0.0 the plugin can also drive a cloud-paired printer with verification left ON — no Developer Mode. This keeps the cloud features (cloud print dispatch, print history, MakerWorld) but is meant for advanced users, because it requires private slicer credentials that this project does not distribute.
Two things are needed:
1. Bambu's slicer credentials, which you provide yourself. Put slicer_cert.pem, slicer_key.pem and slicer_crl.pem in the plugin's config directory (or point at them with slicer_cert_pem / slicer_key_pem / slicer_crl_pem in obn.conf). The plugin uses the key to sign MQTT print commands and to install its app certificate on the printer. These are private credentials. This project does not ship them and gives no instructions on obtaining them — you have to find or extract them yourself, and you alone are responsible for ensuring your use complies with the applicable terms and law.
2. Two settings in obn.conf. Set block_cloud = 0 (the default 1 blocks cloud printing outright) and client_name = BambuStudio (the honest default client name is rejected by the cloud print API with HTTP 403).
With that in place you get signed MQTT commands, on-printer app-certificate install, cloud print dispatch, print history and MakerWorld — without touching Developer Mode.
What the default cloud_print = cloud_only actually uploads. Even in this mode the model itself normally stays on your network: for a print with a cloud record the plugin sends the .3mf straight to the printer over LAN FTPS, and only the record goes to Bambu — a project entry, a task entry (mode=lan_file) and a small config .3mf that print history uses for its thumbnails. That record is exactly what buys you the cloud extras: print history in Studio and Handy, and the ability to rate models on MakerWorld. The full model is uploaded to Bambu's servers only when Studio dispatches a pure cloud print (start_print), e.g. for a printer that is not reachable on your LAN.
You can limit even that: set cloud_print = try_lan_first or lan_only to print over the LAN without writing a cloud record at all, and cloud_hide_history = 1 to hide the cloud print history in Studio.
If you run neither Developer Mode nor valid credentials, the printer rejects every print / project_file command and shows on its screen:
MQTT Command verification failed err_code: 84033543
by InTheArena