Suica, Japan's First IC Transit Card

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• Hacker News
• > When you tap your card on a terminal, it reads and rewrites the card locally in an instant, with the entire transaction processed in under 200 milliseconds. For each tap, the card and terminal mutually authenticate each other and generate a fresh encryption key to prevent spoofing.

  This is the part that I'd be interested in reading more about. I'd known there must be some data on the card itself (since I can still use smartphone apps to read my cards now that I'm back in the US), but assumed there must have been some server connection too since storing anything authoritative on the card would invite tampering, and wondered why they would've bothered to store a log of recent trips on the card itself in addition to the hypothetical servers. It does make sense for latency reasons that they'd design it for the card itself to be authoritative, but I wonder how they do prevent tampering.

  by jacobgkau
• When you pay with Suica, the merchant pays a transaction fee of between 2 to 3.2%, similar to a credit card.

  That's surprising. IC cards are so universally and cheerfully accepted that I assumed they had no per-transaction costs. Compare the US, where merchants can be surly about card payments.

  by sowbug
• Huge shout out that if you are going to be in Japan, you need one of these cards. I had thought I could just buy a two day pass in Tokyo. Which, you can, but you are almost certainly going to be limited to what routes and lines you can use, then. Which is brutal when you can't tell google maps which card you have.
  by taeric
• The chips in these cards are a perfect example of a computer you own but don't control, and when that's a good thing.

  The only reason fast transit cards work is that the chips on them are under control of the transit agency, and designed in a way that makes it impossible for the card owner to hack in and modify the balance. If somebody finds a fundamental flaw in Suica, I suspect things will get pretty interesting indeed.

  If you tried to implement Suica with cards where the card owner had full control, you would have to do this with asymmetric keys, cryptographic signatures, and a round trip to the server for every transaction.

  by miki123211
• It's a bummer that while Google Wallet on Android phones supports Suica, they only offer the feature if the device was sold originally in Japan. Presumably they didn't want to pay Sony the licensing fees for the technology on non-JP devices.

  iPhones have it worldwide, so a visitor to Japan can use Apple Pay to stand up a card and fund it.

  by ben1040
• Maybe it was advanced for the time being created, to me it's just any other RFID card that is issued everywhere else in the world in the matter of read speed, from every public transit card that I find in every EU country I've visited (maybe for a US citizen not used to public transit it seems something special, I don't know), to skipasses, to even your gym card.

  Having the option to also pay with credit card would be much more convenient to tourists, when I visited Japan I've had difficulties finding the right place to get a SUICA card (being that my Android phone didn't have Felica chip, as most phones sold outside Japan), and on top of that you almost everywhere need to charge it with only cash. And you can charge it only by 500 or 1000 yen at the time (depending on the machine), and of course tickets always have not round prices like 110 yen. And you have 500 yen of deposit for a card that probably costs to them 10 yen to manufacturer, unless you get the red SUICA card that you can get only in some special machines at the airport but with that you don't get back the unused credit when you leave (you can spend it at vending machine tough).

  So the speed saving of a couple of ms of not having to pay by tapping your normal credit card is completely vanished by wasting time to charge that card.

  BTW even if they don't want to put credit card POS on every station (I get it, it's expensive and they need to pay fees if someone uses a card, compared to cash) they could make a system that uses regular NFC (would be 100ms slower, who cares) at least for tourists so they can use it with a regular NFC card in their phone wallet that they can charge with an app without requiring a technology that only works in phone sold in Japan?

  by alerighi
• Sad to see the mascot going in March. Apparently this entire brand reset is tied to something JR East is calling 'Suica Renaissance,' which is about a ten-year effort to turn Suica into a lifestyle brand.

  Whitepaper: https://www.jreast.co.jp/e/press/2024/pdf/20241210.pdf

  They're planning on moving beyond the ¥20,000 prepaid balance limit, they are adding QR code payments (think WeChat and Alipay), making Suica work across regions and support more touchless and cloud-based systems, and connecting it more with banking, shopping, loyalty, discounts, and local services.

  So essentially they want to become your default payment platform which is a huge opportunity given how paper-money-driven Japan is.

  by speak_plainly
• If you haven’t experienced suica, it’s like magically fast. Faster than NFC, faster than Apple Pay, faster than tap to pay, faster than Disney magic bands, faster than your work badge. It absolutely floored me every time I used it in Japan and it’s a full payment transaction.
  by cptcobalt