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- Hacker News
- When you tap your card on a terminal, it reads and rewrites the card locally in an instant, with the entire transaction processed in under 200 milliseconds.
It's depressing that some transport systems around the world delivered decades later couldn't match this (using a proprietary card not a credit card), looking at you Myki.
by cube00 - Ok, this might sound great but it's really not.
I live in Switzerland, and they don't use a tap in/tap out system at all. There are no barriers to enter the station, anywhere.
There are multiple ways to purchase a ticket, I usually use the app Fairtiq or the official SBB app, where I swipe right before boarding the train/tram/bus(it's a national system, so even works on the regional networks) and swipe left when I'm done with my travel.
It then calculates the best price for me. If I do multiple journeys, it will know what I should have gotten a 24 hour pass, and subsequent travel is free.
tap in/tap off sucks no matter how good the system is. It is fundamentally a wrong think.
I travel by public transport in many countries, I travel over the world for work, it is my preferred mode of transport. Switzerland has by far the best ideas. Luxembourg is great as well, totally free, but small.
by Gud - from personal experience in swiss system, I always forget to swipe left. Less personal experience: there is also a bit of a stress with swiping right and hopping on the train. If for whatever reason there is a delay (location, network), and you get checked on the train you will pay a fine.by awruko
- go try it out, it works great in japan.
it fundamentally works.
by ororoo - True, the Swiss is the simplest way around - and in planning is to activate it even without swiping (I'm not sure I remember details): But let's face it the tap system is not that far behind, because in some implementations it can do that calculation by itself (I believe having seen it in London?) so at the end of the day you end up paying the optimal price.by soco
- >tap in/tap off sucks no matter how good the system is. It is fundamentally a wrong think.
Tap system doesn't have to end billing period on tap out, if that's what you're trying to say.
Moscow/Saint Petersburg cards have many options which you can combine (add-on packages), as well as a regular balance (wallet).
"90 minutes unlimited" does how it is named, and if you travel first by metro, then switch to a bus, you pay less in the bus.
by ValdikSS - I can see how for a local this system might be better, but as a tourist I strongly prefer the tap in/tap out system, especially if I can just use my credit card.
I used the SBB app a few times, and it's actually very good, but it's still an "app experience". First, I need to set it up (download, login, add payment method), for which I need an internet connection (which I might not have as soon as I enter the country). Then, every time I need to purchase a ticket I need to open the app and figure out how to do what I need to.
Tapping in and out is superior in my view, even though I might end up overpaying a bit (though I'm probably still paying much less than what I'd pay in Switzerland :D ).
by pscanf - I was hoping the author would also discuss a bit more about the security / encryption side of it. If transactions are done only between the card and the reader, could one use a reader at home to alter the balance? If you can load the card on you phone I assume you can use the phone to read it, but that might not be true.
Anyway it was a great read! Glad to see somebody writing without (obvious) use of LLMs.
by alexmuresan - Various versions of these cards could be accessed to change the balance, including extracting the key by differential power analysis
[edit] Looks like this finally became public recently https://www.techtimes.com/articles/321138/20260721/japan-con...
by KateLawson - I’ve visited Tokyo four times, and I’ve been using the same Suica card since my very first trip! I love it, and I’d really like to collect all the Suica-like cards, such as PASMO, ICOCA, Kitaca, and more.
I love it when little everyday things bring a tiny bit of happiness and color into daily life. (for more info: https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2359_003.html)
by LM37 - > When you tap your card on a terminal, it reads and rewrites the card locally in an instant, with the entire transaction processed in under 200 milliseconds. For each tap, the card and terminal mutually authenticate each other and generate a fresh encryption key to prevent spoofing.
This is the part that I'd be interested in reading more about. I'd known there must be some data on the card itself (since I can still use smartphone apps to read my cards now that I'm back in the US), but assumed there must have been some server connection too since storing anything authoritative on the card would invite tampering, and wondered why they would've bothered to store a log of recent trips on the card itself in addition to the hypothetical servers. It does make sense for latency reasons that they'd design it for the card itself to be authoritative, but I wonder how they do prevent tampering.
by jacobgkau - It's largely the same as credit cards - the card have multiple data partitions and secure read/write are encrypted. Balances are logged on both the card and the station-level servers and correctable errors and/or mid-ride updates, if any, are propagated while the user is in motion, so that they can be written upon exit.
^ that was the official explanation for a long time, but they've reportedly transitioned to more credit-card like online system with no station-level servers, and also raised fees, which was negatively received by many rail operators aside JR East itself(which owns the system). There had been few rail companies experimenting with NFC credit card rides, though I'm personally suspecting it's more of bargaining power development.open threat than those lines seriously considering a switch.
The chips in the cards are secure enough that physical tampering is extremely difficult and software tampering is difficult enough with security by obscurity + encryption - the catch is that, it turns out, early Suica cards used DES(not even 3DES it seems), and they just didn't tell anybody until those went out of circulation. Plus, the prepaid limit of 20k yen(local equivalent of $200) limits abuse potential of the system; it's not worth trying to commit blatant frauds on the train-and-sandwiches card.
by numpad0 - When you pay with Suica, the merchant pays a transaction fee of between 2 to 3.2%, similar to a credit card.
That's surprising. IC cards are so universally and cheerfully accepted that I assumed they had no per-transaction costs. Compare the US, where merchants can be surly about card payments.
by sowbug - > Compare the US, where merchants can be surly about card payments.
I rarely encounter this - I find it far more common to see places that won’t accept cash at all (even small businesses like food trucks).
by jen20 - There's a mindset difference. People are more willing to pay to reduce inconvenience for customers there, whereas here the inconvenience to the merchant sometimes matters more.by Conan_Kudo
- Huge shout out that if you are going to be in Japan, you need one of these cards. I had thought I could just buy a two day pass in Tokyo. Which, you can, but you are almost certainly going to be limited to what routes and lines you can use, then. Which is brutal when you can't tell google maps which card you have.by taeric
- tbh if you only stay in Tokyo then the combined Tokyo subway pass (Tokyo Metro and Toei Subway) is the best all around deal, you don't need anything else. ¥2000 for 72 hoursby haunter
- What happened to buying a single ticket at the station, when you need one? That's what I did when I was in Tokyo, but it was a long time agoby usrnm
- https://japantravel.navitime.com/en/
Allows you to specify up front what passes you have, worked brilliantly on our honeymoon, especially when figuring out which Shinkansen reservations we needed to make.
by Elidrake24 - The Tokyo Metro Ticket (24h/48h/72h) is very convenient, though. I just looked at the prices and the longest one went from ¥1500 to ¥2000 since November 2025 but I think it's still very valuable, especially if you've never been to Tokyo and want to travel between a lot of places.
JR is better if you go to the countryside of Tokyo but for the city itself Metro is much more convenient, IMO. Perhaps it depends on the station you commute to, though.
When I travel to Tokyo, I usually do at the very least 4 Metro trips per day, and let's say the minimum fare is ¥178,it would come down to ¥712 daily.
by Pooge - The chips in these cards are a perfect example of a computer you own but don't control, and when that's a good thing.
The only reason fast transit cards work is that the chips on them are under control of the transit agency, and designed in a way that makes it impossible for the card owner to hack in and modify the balance. If somebody finds a fundamental flaw in Suica, I suspect things will get pretty interesting indeed.
If you tried to implement Suica with cards where the card owner had full control, you would have to do this with asymmetric keys, cryptographic signatures, and a round trip to the server for every transaction.
by miki123211 - It's a bummer that while Google Wallet on Android phones supports Suica, they only offer the feature if the device was sold originally in Japan. Presumably they didn't want to pay Sony the licensing fees for the technology on non-JP devices.
iPhones have it worldwide, so a visitor to Japan can use Apple Pay to stand up a card and fund it.
by ben1040 - It's not just a patent fee, IC-card support takes special hardware that enables the low latency of the transaction. Only Android phones sold in Japan (including Pixels) get it installed at manufacturing.by ink_13
- Cringe. Cards are fun, collectable, and never run out of battery. Mine is a custom limited edition card from a Japanese chocolate factory.by panny
- The only annoying thing is, well at least in 2023 or so, was that you had to actually load the card with funds even if you had a payment method attached on the iPhone wallet. That got me once as I was tapping like normal throughout my time in Japan and ran out of funds and held up a bunch of Japanese schoolgirls (judging by their attire) who definitely laughed at me and I of course laughed at myself too.
If you’re in Japan here is a tip though. If you’re not super close to the main cities and you’re in an area without as many tourists and you see a group of Japanese school children and they all are eating something - the same thing or stuff from the same place, copy them. You won’t be disappointed. Probably. Had the best curry pan or whatever it’s called in my life following that trick.
by ericmay - Apple Watches also support it, which can make it even more convenient in some circumstances (no need to fish anything out of pockets/bags/etc, can be used while holding other things).
- Maybe it was advanced for the time being created, to me it's just any other RFID card that is issued everywhere else in the world in the matter of read speed, from every public transit card that I find in every EU country I've visited (maybe for a US citizen not used to public transit it seems something special, I don't know), to skipasses, to even your gym card.
Having the option to also pay with credit card would be much more convenient to tourists, when I visited Japan I've had difficulties finding the right place to get a SUICA card (being that my Android phone didn't have Felica chip, as most phones sold outside Japan), and on top of that you almost everywhere need to charge it with only cash. And you can charge it only by 500 or 1000 yen at the time (depending on the machine), and of course tickets always have not round prices like 110 yen. And you have 500 yen of deposit for a card that probably costs to them 10 yen to manufacturer, unless you get the red SUICA card that you can get only in some special machines at the airport but with that you don't get back the unused credit when you leave (you can spend it at vending machine tough).
So the speed saving of a couple of ms of not having to pay by tapping your normal credit card is completely vanished by wasting time to charge that card.
BTW even if they don't want to put credit card POS on every station (I get it, it's expensive and they need to pay fees if someone uses a card, compared to cash) they could make a system that uses regular NFC (would be 100ms slower, who cares) at least for tourists so they can use it with a regular NFC card in their phone wallet that they can charge with an app without requiring a technology that only works in phone sold in Japan?
by alerighi - > would be 100ms slower, who cares
It's almost like you didn't read the article.
by jen729w - I think maybe no one has noted that as of 2026-03-25, Tokyo Metro now accepts open-loop contactless EMV tap to ride. I believe the result is similar to how in London you can use either Oyster or a CC (or OMNY or CC in New York City). But I haven't visited Japan since this development. Apparently, Osaka has run open-loop contactless EMV since 2024-10-29 - I didn't know that when I was there!
Of course, I still think you will want an IC if you travel outside Tokyo... IC is also very useful for payments (especially vending machines), though at shops/restaurants I normally have had little trouble using CC if IC is also accepted. (My thanks to another commenter who finally taught me how those Coke ON machines work!)
Others have noted that in Japan, where transit utilization is so high, 100ms does seem to count in terms of efficiently moving people through fare gates. Maybe I'm just a yokel but Tokyo Station at rush hour was pretty impressive to me. EMV contactless payments are notably slower where they are used elsewhere. I think that is one reason why some stations (Ginza) are experimenting with dedicated fare gates for EMV (and QR). In London, people have noticed the speed difference between Oyster and EMV contactless. I believe the difference is that EMV was not designed from the ground up for fare gates.
Source: https://japantoday.com/category/features/travel/tokyo-subway...
I do think it is fair to note that FeliCa seems to attract praise that Calypso does not, despite Calypso doing similar transaction times. Calypso underlies Paris's Navigo cards, as well as Milan's ATM cards (haven't used that system yet)...
As a tourist, I always am a bit charmed by learning the ins-and-outs of how local systems work, but maybe that is just my dorkiness.
Most transit systems have some hiccups, especially for travelers. Your criticisms of FeliCa/IC/SUICA are fair, but maybe one can view the system more charitably with context. In Paris, you could only use Navigo in your Apple wallet starting 2024-05-XX. A physical Navigo Easy cost 2 EUR (not refundable). If you wanted to buy weekly or monthly passes as a tourist, I believe you were expected to purchase a Navigo Découverte from a station agent and provide them with a pre-printed headshot! Card cost: 5 EUR. I just bought paper tickets in Paris (I haven't been there since carnets stopped being sold 2023).
My point is that this kind of stuff has historically been normal for travelers to navigate, whether in Europe or East Asia.
I agree that open-loop contactless EMV payment has begun to make transit more frictionless to the traveler, and the patience for local quirks/frictions is dropping. But contactless EMV is still rolling out across the world (not in the Paris Métro yet). For fun you can look up all the cards and apps in Copenhagen (DOT Tickets, Rejsekort, Rejsebillet, Basiskort...). I don't think you can just tap your CC there yet. And, as noted, Japanese metros are introducing open-loop contactless EMV.
Of your complaints about physical IC cards, I think that cash top-up is maybe the biggest bother. It would be nice to load value with a debit card. In truth, I never dealt with that because I have an iPhone and a digital IC card. Maybe it would have really bothered me if I couldn't top-up inside Apple Wallet. But in fairness, I remember ~10yrs ago Japan being a lot more cash based at shops and restaurants. You kind of needed to have cash. And one of the things that is very easy in Japan is withdrawing cash at ATMs. But that seems to have changed a lot in 10yrs, and maybe we just have more of an expectation of things being more digital and frictionless...
Just the two cents (yen?) of this unworldly US citizen not experienced in public transit.
by ruggeri - Not sure about android, but first time I went to Japan I managed to install Suica app on my iPhone, that added Suica card to the wallet. So now I can pay with Suica and also top it up using apple pay. Only downside is that Suica app is all in Japanese, but there are guides online that explain what to press.by blks