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- Hacker News
- As the author says himself, he hasn’t attended in 30 years. I understand some of the things he’s complaining about, but I don’t think that is the dominant experience of being there.by nsedlet
- And yet, I think it’s perfectly reasonable for the founder of something to share his opinions on why he thinks it’s no longer the thing he created.
Both things can be true.
- I don't understand how nostalgia can be applied to Burning Man.
Outside of those few who dedicate themselves to the organization and administration of the event, each burning man is a unique assemblage of thousands of people, different in every way from one year to the next. Except perhaps the location.
Without the different human beings who show up each year, the event would be nothing more than a dust bowl waiting to become a mud pit.
The "soul," if there is one, is the sum total of the expressions those humans bring with them at any given point in time.
Change the humans and you change the expression. So exactly which "soul" does the author long for?
by johnohara - It might be true technically, but I've been about a dozen times and in my memories of the place it can often be hard for me to determine which ones happened on which year.by c22
- Anything with a soul that gains popularity is doomed to value extraction.by kermatt
- Yep. Las Vegas used to have a soul. Not anymore.by jimt1234
- I've known this for awhile, since at least 2020. Specifically when they told a documentarian he could film and then threatened litigation he release his film after he had already shot it. He had to blur literally everything at Burning Man but the guy he's following around.by jesse_dot_id
- Zoinks I mangled that. Late edit:
I've known this for awhile, since at least 2020. Specifically when they told a documentarian he could film and then threatened litigation if he released his film — after he had already shot it. He had to painstakingly blur literally all Burning Man footage except for the guy he's following around.
by jesse_dot_id - I don’t know anything about burning man except the actor who originally played Dr. Weir on Stargate SG1 was fired (essentially) because she misled the producers about attending it. Tory Higgens did a fine job as her replacement though.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eDriBfoPzsA&t=120s&pp=2AF4kAIB...
by le-mark - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Steen#Career
From the narrative on Wikipedia, it looks more like she was fired not because she hid the truth, but because she was indeed attending Burning Man and the producers didn't like the idea: "committed to naked drugging in the desert" as opposed to misleading anyone. If she'd told the truth, it'd probably have the same result.
- I started going in 2002 and have friends who have gone every year since then.
There has been a meme that burning man sucks now and used to be better that entire time.
That doesn't mean the meme is false. It definitely has changed. There's an article in sfgate today that quotes the head of the Death Guild (Thunderdome) camp as saying something like, do people want to carry on the traditions their parents had, or invent their own?
I thought that was a great question. Both are valid paths.
by johndhi - i went 95-2000 then got cajoled back in 2012. It sucks now. It actually sucks now.by sleepybrett
- It was better next year.by shawn_w
- Festivals have changed. People want high speed internet, good food, professional security and not having to put up their own tent.by TitaRusell
- san francisco had that cool, edgy, gonzo art scene happening in the 90s. also survival research laboratories and their famous pitching machine, the omnicircus, chicken john, laughing squid, critical mass/commute clot, santarchy/santa con (before it became the weird frat thing it is today). similar things in brooklyn in the '00s like the madagascar institute, black label bike club, idiotarod, etc.
in the 2000s, there was kind of an interesting tech meets countercultural art thing where a lot of the more interesting tech people would pour their disposable income into interesting burning man art projects (nimby's ddi, jabba's sail barge) but it does seem like in recent years with the real sf affordability crisis that came with internet business actually taking off the creativity went down and the money seeking people showed up. i guess that's also true of sf (and brooklyn) more generally.
it was a fun time. i was a swe intern in the mid 90s and would marvel when the engineering team would disappear to the desert for a week and come back with colored hair. my boss drove a psychedelic school bus to work sometimes. in south of market on 6th street in sf, there was a building that had furniture welded onto the exterior like it had all come to life and was trying to escape the building.
by a-dub - > ...the festival I helped invent 36 years ago. Curiously, I get this interest even though I haven’t set foot in the Black Rock Desert since 1996.
Not doubting the headline conclusion, but I would have expected a better source than someone who hasn't been to Burning Man in literally 30 years. AFAICT, Burning Man was still very well regarded ~20 years ago, long after this founder stopped attending
by whack - it’s still the city. the org might be run in a lame way but any time you get too involved in something you see another layer of politics and favoritism and helping friends out that just seems wrong. most people going aren’t at that level and it’s fine. you’ll still have a good time (if you want to)by foolfoolz
- He also neglected to mention that Larry Harvey attended up through his death, afaik. Or how deeply affected the city was the year Larry died.
Or that the man design was done for so long by a close collaborator of Larry’s. And that the man base has been frequently spectacular both on fire and not.
The historical perspective and old photos are great but I’m not much for the conclusion. I would be willing to bet the title and byline are editorialized by the publisher.
You can still go out there with not much, be new and participate and just smile at some famous or not person also on their way back from the Portos.
There is a lot of money involved, no doubt and there is a lot of bullshit too, like art cars that do fundraisers and take volunteer contributions only to remain largely private vessels for a particular crew, a few celebs etc.
And there’s a lot to not like about the org or how art grants are handled, it’s a big system it has the exploits and nepotism that might infect anything scaled and offering power.
But if you go and do not look closely and just give in small ways none of that would likely be visible to you.
You could have the time of your life. Or not. Which I think suggests the opportunity for adventure and chaos still remains at that thing in the desert.
by bredren - Curiously, I found this 1995 SFGate article offering a related perspective:
> Many participants tell me this is the last year the event will be bearable before it "goes commercial."
https://www.sfgate.com/style/article/Communal-art-in-the-des...
by rodrodrod - And funny enough, John Law himself has basically been saying the same thing since the late '90s. He's been shaking his fist at this particular cloud for over twenty-five years, so I'm not sure why an opinion piece like this is even noteworthy at this point.
FWIW, for a lot of us, the magic is still there. Most of the city exists outside of the shiny Instagram influencers that seem to dominate the narrative. We're still there being gross and building shit for the joy of it with our friends.
by supern0va - About 15 years ago it really started to get corporate. Big money came in and created camps with air conditioning, huge RV's no bartering, etc.
Dustin Moskovitz and the like started going and wouldn't dare behave the ordinary peasants, by sleeping in tents, participating in the community, bartering for things.
Heck Zuckerberg took a helicopter there one year.
instead they just threw money at the event so they wouldn't have to do the things that made burning man, burning man.
by chollida1 - It’s funny the way having money and participating in something “the easy way” removes the coolness / authenticity from the experience.by bamboozled
- > Heck Zuckerberg took a helicopter there one year.
The vast majority of the people I knew who flew in weren’t rich like Zuck, they just liked flying. It’s the only way to get a wristband that allows you to come and go at will (i.e. to run logistics for a camp) and avoid exodus if you had to leave that day.
15 years ago no one gave a damn about the rich people going to burning man. They were isolated in their camps. We were much more concerned with keeping our Sparkle Ponies alive.
by throwup238 - Bartering is not a thing at the burn. It intended to be a gift-based event.
Rainbow Gathering is barter-based.
by bredren - What are you talking 'corporate' - there are no corporate sponsors, and people having been coming in with their big camp A/C rvs for 25 years at least.
There's an airport there for 30 years - people have been flying airplanes and helicoptors forever.
by bluegatty - I think this is where my head goes when I think of the event: a large portion of the attendees have gone from community members to customers.by hingler36
- I work at a financial company and around 2019, the break room had a magazine called “Meetings” with a front-page article about how burning man and sxsw are the next big thing in corporate culture.by dmkolobov
- I think you've picked the wrong target here.
Worth reading Dustin's personal account of his Burning Man experience: https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/radical-inclusion-vs-radical-self... (bear in mind this was written 13 years ago, I'm not sure Dustin would agree with everything stated, but the broad strokes feel correct.)
That post also explains Zuck's attendance. Zuck is not a Burner, it was a one-off visit encouraged by Dustin. Personally I think it was inconsequential in the long run but good for Zuck to have seen it.
The criticism you're raising about money being thrown at the event is broadly valid, but it does not at all apply to how Dustin approached it, IMO. Dustin did precisely what you are suggesting he didn't - slept in a tent, literally cooked and served grilled cheese sandwiches.
(Context: I was in the camp/village, attended 10 years 2009-2018, back once in 2025, have done a lot of playa art... and I also broadly agree with John Law's take.)
by mcslee - An aside though about the whole "lost its soul". I was looking up Marion Goodell's salary and it's pretty high. The Burning Man ORG spends a lot on salaries, especially since it relies on a mostly volunteer workforce.
She and the C-suite for the Burning Man Org make like $300,000 plus. It's not a HUGE amount in San Francisco if you consider tech salaries but I parsed salaries of CEOs of arts organizations in California and she's still easily by far the most highly paid CEO in her field.
They also have a CTO what makes 300k.
https://burningman.org/about-us/what-we-do/financials-public...
by HaloZero - That's a huge amount even in San Francisco. Sometimes I'm shocked what working in big tech does to people's ideas about what a normal annual salary is.
Burning Man is a once a year event. Being a c level for that is not comparable to being c level for a lot of other even non profit orgs not to even mention for profit orgs