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- Hacker News
- >Supported formats: JPG, PNG, GIF, WEBP, TIFF, HEIC, AVIF, SVG, DNG, JXL, MP4, MOV, AVI, WAV, MP3, M4A, FLAC · up to 100 MB
I'm wondering why they have restricted file types. You can't check a PDF for example... surely the main use case for people will be to check if a document was produced or edited by an LLM? That could be an attractive (if not misunderstood) proposition for academics
by nixlaz - Luckily all pdfs I made in academia have been generated from source (tex or derivatives, asciidoc) and llm are better in generating source than pdf. Even people that didn’t use tex used Word to generate the pdf.
So I’m unsure what your aiming at.
by spockz - > I'm wondering why they have restricted file types. You can't check a PDF for example...
TFA/page actually seems incomplete. Text uses a completely different watermark format (an actual watermark as opposed to a provenance/authenticity signature), so it makes sense to me that they're not claiming to be able to scan PDFs when they can't yet incorporate that signal.
On a linked page, they say:
> Watermark detection is currently in private preview [...]
by lxgr - This thing works using WebAssembly - https://claude.com/_next/static/media/c2pa_verify_wasm_bg.53... - which is a WASM compiled version of this Rust library: https://github.com/contentauth/c2pa-rsby simonw
- I think all of this it's so they don't get ai generated content in their training databy kelvinjps10
- So they do it as a free service to the other LLMs?by applicative
- Or it’s so they can continue to operate in the EU where this is required.by bradfa
- Could this be used to perform some sort of distillation or exploit? e.g. reminds me of the OWASP guideline on attack vectors where knowing if an ID is present or not in the database can be a form of exploit, like in password resets where they will say 'email foo@bar.com not found' rather than 'If foo@bar exists we have sent an email to foo@bar' or some other generic equivalentby hmokiguess
- Probably not, given that both C2PA and SynthID-Text are statelessly verifiable.by lxgr
- Does code also get watermarked? Surely you can't add non printable characters, except perhaps in comments?by cm2187
- Much harder to do apparently, but they can still watermark comments.
https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-text-watermark, Ctrl-F for "What about code?"
by huhtenberg - There is a text watermark detector API but it's in private preview right now. Very curious if it works with code as well as prose.by panarky
- How long before they change the terms and conditions to subtly claim ownership of your files? When you write code they already insert Co author attribution/
Say I write a text by hand And then I tell it to clean up the grammar and fix some sentences Did it make it?
This is also interesting for those companies that siphoned the entire open web
by kbrannigan - Microsoft Word has not claimed ownership in 40 years. Why would Anthropic do?by warkdarrior
- I don't see a legal pathway to do that
The two competing legal arguments regarding copyright of LLM output are "it's like hiring a monkey" (author is the LLM, which is not a person, thus can't hold copyright and can't assign it to you) and "it's like taking a photograph" (the LLM is a machine through which the prompting person expresses their creativity, just like a camera). In no scenario is Anthropic the author of the work.
If we settle on the monkey analogy the Anthropic owns the monkey, but the owner of a monkey doesn't own copyright for the creations of the monkey. If we settle on the camera analogy, anthropic claiming ownership would be like Canon claiming they own pictures you take.
What Anthropic could do is to change the terms to give themselves a non-exclusive global perpetual license to use everything Claude makes
by wongarsu - Up next:
1. Generate a bunch of responses with both Claude and various non-Claude LLMs (ChatGPT, Gemini, Kimi)
2. Train a discriminator model that can differentiate Claude vs. non-Claude
3. Train a de-watermarking model using the discriminator model as loss
by qurren - You just described how Pangram works.
- Or just write a 6 line program to remove the metainfo from the file?by hughw
- What is interesting to me is that stripping the C2PA data is easy, but faking it is hard.
You can resave the file and the "made with Claude" signal disappears, but you cannot make a random file pass as Claude-made without Anthropic's signing key. So the useful guarantee is one-way. No signature means almost nothing.
by coffeecoders - And it's one-way in the direction that typically no one cares about.by fph
- Next month: Show HN: How to successfully spoof C2PA and make any file as claude made!by tamimio
- Yeah, C2PA solves a different problem than watermarking, i.e. authenticity/provenance.by lxgr
- For removing cspa you can use https://metastripper.devkram.de/by ulrischa
- "Faking" it is trivial. You don't need their signing keys when you can just ask them to sign whatever you like. Upload your own file with the prompt "present this file back to me again, as-is".by Retr0id
- The goal of C2PA is that cameras will start to emit C2PA credentials. You will then have 3 situations:
* C2PA confirms a photo is authentic
* C2PA confirms a photo is AI generated
* C2PA missing, you don't know.
I reckon we will only see "C2PA missing" being treated as suspect in select situations (perhaps Reuters will require C2PA from their photojournalists, for example)
by advisedwang - This is really fascinating. Even the AI companies have incentives to reject AI generated content. It's like they want you to use AI for everything, but they don't want AI output fed back to them.
At work, right after an AI training, we were asked to use our "authentic" voice when writing mid year reviews.
by firefoxd - Or maybe it's good for everybody to use LLMs for some things but not other things, as opposed to some people should use it for everything and others for nothing. These companies are definitely using LLMs for coding.
- Just like the tech company owners not allowing their kids access to social media…by stranded22
- This is just C2PA for Claude-processed files, apparently. It's not related to their text watermarking.
C2PA is file metadata and can be trivially stripped away, unlike hidden watermarks, e.g. SynthID.
by Tiberium - The way I read it, I thought they would just check if the file hash exists on their end. Is that not the case?by ramon156