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- Hacker News
- Would love to see video of the application in action. Was recently researching eink displays for motorcycle navigation, but the refresh rates were not up to par for realtime automotive navigation..by seemaze
- i have been using it in my car during commutes for testing. modern eink displays can do pretty high refresh rates. i think i can hit 20hz.by stingrae
- Very cool! I made something similar recently with my Xteink X4 ereader - difference being it served as a UI for sensors connected to my phone. Getting the ESP32 to communicate directly to ANT sensors is pretty wild!by nickmcc
- Do you have any resources for playing around with the Xteink outside of just reading? I got mine this week and would love to push its utility!
- Hey this looks neat, I’ve been thinking on trying something similar. I’ve not encountered the ANT protocol, what bike ya using? Is it a higher level thing that your display is giving you, or something your controller uses? I know Bafang uses CAN protocols in their newer e-bike systems and a lot of manufacturers (especially Chinese) use a proprietary UART protocol to stitch things together on the cheaper end.
The mess of different implementations makes it really hard to hack on and share this kinda stuff.
AI does make it really easy to figure out these protocols now so that’s nice I guess. I just flipped my bike upside down and hooked up a logic analyzer and it took LLM no time to figure it out… it is really impressive
by tuchsen - ant+ is a garmin protocol that is very common with fitness gadgets and in the bike world. It's a bit like bluetooth, but lower energy usage.by monknomo
- Ant+ is for connecting sensors and other stuff. Like heart rate monitor, power meter, control resistance on a trainer etc.by matsemann
- You don't need AI to decode these protocols. People have already done that. If you look a bit further than asking you favourite LLM for obvious answers there is plenty of OS code available for the LS, KT and Bafang uart protocols. Still recommend you avoid them, they are pretty poor and CAN is way more reliable.by consp
- ANT+ is basically dead because of an EU legal requirement to ensure that personal information is encrypted. So no new devices will be supporting it, and everything has to move to BLE.
It was quite a rich ecosystem of sensor devices, especially for cycling, including speed and cadence sensors, heart rate monitors, power meters, lights, radar, etc.
It has been extremely popular over the last 20 years.
by __d - Wow. You managed to receive ANT+ via BLE hardware?! I didn't know these two protocols were so similar.by kccqzy
- The protocols aren’t the same by the physical link is. Same with 802.15.4 aka thread aka zigbee.by woodgala
- yes. they luckily the same phy, 1 Mbit/s GFSK modulation.by stingrae
- This would be a pair great with Gadgetbridge and Endurain.by jbj
- Very cool! Did you consider Protomaps for the map tile format at all? It's a pretty clever way of storing everything in a single file and their tooling is pretty nice.by shrinks99
- I hadnt heard of it. I will check it out.by stingrae
- I've found e-ink displays super fragile for this use case. They break from a little fall, or even from the constant shaking.
- For all their readability benefits under direct sunlight, prolonged exposure also damages or kills them. You need at least a UV blocker for outdoor use, but the heat cannot be avoided.
- This is great. One suggestion I have (for these types of projects in general) is to include a BoM and price estimates. Make those front and center. Even though prices shift they give people ballpark estimates for deciding "do I want to spend time on this" or not. It also shows a log of clearly supported hardware and even makes it easier to track tweaks for different hardware as people contribute to your projects.by godelski
- Wow, amazing work.
My use case is a bit more basic than most. I am nearly always on routes I know and just want a few basic stats, but…
I require a bike radar to work. I use a Varia. I like the beep, and need the indication for a car behind. Is there any compatibility with this?
If this question is already answered somewhere, apologies.
by lostlogin - Within 10 seconds I was convinced I needed to try this.
For me, the next step for this is taking all the sensor data recorded for a ride, and loading it into my own fitness tracking database that I own, control, and isn't tied to someone else's profits.
by neoCrimeLabs - intervals.icu?by rfonseca
- This is great, I just saw your post on X. I'm also building a bike computer!
eInk is the right display tech. I think this will do really well. It might need a UV filter.
That said, I don't love needing a separate device (hence, I don't own any bike computer). This is just my preference, but I really prefer to just plop my phone on my handlebars. So I'm building a bike computer app for iPhone: https://x.com/mholt6/status/2090529441944687087 (trying to get Apple to approve my developer account / business info, but they're hung up on my website of all things).
Phones are definitely not ideal in terms of display and energy use, but, I have found that with proper optimizations, energy use is a non-issue. To offset display problems, the app has several ride modes: a rich map display with 3D road or satellite view; a high-contrast wireframe map that looks great at both high and low refresh rates because it has no analog-style gauges; an instrument panel dashboard view; and a voice-only mode that has big touch zones for on-demand voice updates, using a state of the art mobile voice synthesis model. For connected radars, the app also renders radar data and has a screen like Tesla/Rivian's autonomy displays.
The app automatically manages thermals by switching modes to preserve battery life.
In my testing so far, by managing energy, making really good voice feedback, and using high-contrast screens (every mode other than the "rich" map), even a dimmed iPhone display is quite a usable bike computer in high-altitude sunlight.
But man, that eInk looks so clean and nice. Definitely the superior display! Nice work and I hope to learn some things from it!
EDIT: Woah, you got ANT+ support using BLE radio? I am not surprised that that is possible, but dang, that must have been a clever LLM.
by mholt - "this is just my preference, but I really prefer to just plop my phone on my handlebars"
It's not a preference. There are a slew of issues around physical damage. Running out of power is far more of a problem than you make it out to be. There are major visibility issues (thankfully Garmin is working on this by continuing their idiotic OLED push /s) and water ingress issues. 1M submersion rating is NOT "driving rain while riding at 15-20mph."
The only people I see with phones on their handlebars are newbies.
by KennyBlanken - > eInk is the right display tech.
It's interesting and I clicked on the OP, but why? The variable ambient light conditions, refresh rate, etc would seem to favor standard LCD/etc.
Battery capacity isn't much of an issue for a small screen, and weight carried by the bicycle.
by mmooss - To each their own and the e-ink computer is a neat project. But I'm personally with you on not wanting a separate device. I have my iPhone and a quad lock case I swap on for rides.
Not sure I'm 100% on board with the visual style of your interface (some of the metrics look like they'd be nearly impossible to read while riding 30mph down a gravel road) but I'd love to check it out once it's released.
Do you have a way to sign up for release email or updates for your project?
Good luck!
by robot_jesus - > eInk is the right display tech.
I used a transflective LCD. Works fine. You don't need UV protection nor have temperature issues. (Yes also build my own two years ago but I don't do pr so no slick website).
by consp - eInk does seem like an awesome choice for this to me too.
I've gone without a bike computer for the same reasons as not wanting a second device. I used my phone for years in a water proof front frame bag with a transparent cover. Usually for not more than 3 hours at a time. Only on my Pixel 7a did I end up with burn in from the Wahoo Android app's status screen, where "n/a" for not having a power meter ultimately burnt in after about 2 years, at least that's when I noticed it. Now I just go without being able to glance down and see ride stats or directions. More planning or stopping if I reroute is required, but I didn't want to damage the phone... :(
Presumably an app could cycle displayed screens, if that's what you meant by switching modes, to avoid burn in? But I really thought AMOLED was past that when I never saw it on previous phones.
by opello - I use my phone as a bike computer too but it only works on short rides around town. Anything longer gets cooked by the sun until the screen dims and battery stops charging.
That’s why the head units in my bikepacking groups have screens that double as solar displays. The Coros Dura is probably the most popular one for all day or multi-day trips.
by alabut - My phone is the root of trust of my life. I would never put on in my handlebars where it can be easily snatched while unlocked, or broken.by woodgala
- note using a phone mounted to a bike or motorcycle can cause damage over time to the camera assembly especially the motors used for OIS. depending on how much you ride or the quality of the roads you ride, it could be an issue.
your project does look amazing. sorry that the appstore team is holding things up.
RE: ANT+, a hackrf one and fable was key to the hack.
by stingrae