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- Hacker News
- As a Canadian living in Canada, I see “Lake Ontario.” in Apple Maps. All good. No idea what Google shows because I don’t knowingly use Google products. But I do see the ridiculous “Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)” I don’t care what Apple shows inside of U.S. borders but dragging the rest of the world into the clown show is unnecessary.
Although I haven’t much thought through the details, I wonder if these disputed names could be subject to user preference. Basically, a pre-MAGA and MAGA setting.
by kashunstva - I’m in the US, near the Canadian boarder, I see both names show up. Lake Ontario shows up larger and when zoomed out. Lake America shows up smaller as I zoom in. I suppose some of this could be a cacheing issue, hard to say.
At the end of the day a map provider has the responsibility to show the official names of places on a map. If it’s one name to the US and another name for the rest of the world, the pragmatic solution is to show the “right” name based on a user’s location.
This seems like a silly hill to die on, when whoever is in office next will likely revert the names of the lake and the Gulf of Mexico, unless they are deep in the Trump camp.
Messing with maps as a negotiation tactic seems rather boneheaded. It’s extremely disruptive, but blaming Google or Apple for any of this is a bad move, imo. There are much bigger fights to be had and they need to pick their battles. This isn’t it, and it will likely resolve itself in time, and should only impact those in the US, if done right.
by al_borland - Amazing how eager they were to do this, and not a week later he's talking about renaming the Strait of Hormuz, New Mexico, and claimed to own the Moon. I wonder if he renames the Moon to Trump, will Google rename Google Moon to Google Trump? Will they rename New Mexico to New America? Will Google rename Tuesday to Trumpday if Trump demands it? Probably yes, the consensus seems to be it's their duty to do so.by ModernMech
- No. Public Law 80-242 applies strictly to terrestrial geography. Outer space and celestial bodies fall outside the jurisdiction of the Department of the Interior.by ralfd
- I simply hope this ushers a new wave of data sovereignty in Canada, and makes our elected officials more conscious of where our data resides and is processed.by m-p-3
- Personally I believe you cannot trust the US Gov. since Citizens United. This seems not only to allow the rich to purchase politicians, but under Trump it allows the current administration to extort companies.
So, companies can easily pay Trump for favors with out any consequences, but they just need to keep the money train going and kowtow to Trump's insane whims.
by jmclnx - Friends overseas are no longer trusting the American people
At first they were saying it's just Trump, they get it
As it has carried on and on conversations have veered into "the people of that country are not reliable and intelligent global partners or the American system truly is a dystopian mess"
by modemNoises - I personally would rather have a democratically-elected government--no matter how awful--pick names rather than have corporations pick names.
Also, I was curious, so I looked it up: Congress passed a law (Public Law 80-242) in 1947 that allowed the executive branch to establish a single set of geographic names.
Conservatives famously protested when the Obama administration renamed Mt. McKinley to Denali. I have no doubt that when a Democratic administration returns to power, they will rename a bunch of stuff, now that the precedence is set.
My guess is we're going to go through a ping-pong of renames before the law gets changed to require some kind of independent group, or a super-majority of senators or something.
by GMoromisato - "Picking" is not the same as "declining to acknowledge a change to". You can make your argument perfectly well without pretending otherwise.
- While this specific rename looks dumb, the map providers deal with this kind of things all the time. Big georgraphical features like rivers, lakes, seas, mountains and also borders are different from different perspectives (mostly country-based).
From outside of the US, I see "Lake Ontario (Lake America)" in Google Maps, the same way as with the Gulf of Mexico. I see "Persian Gulf (Arabian Gulf)" and "Sea of Japan (East Sea)".
Some names are given from one perspective (like rivers and mountains), like Rio Grande river or Mt Everest.
by vitamark - I remember when tech news sites used to (rightfully) harp on about Chinese tech companies and how they should not be trusted given they satisfy every whim of the CCP.
But now large tech companies in America can't even challenge the naming of a Lake and just folded, meekly.
by ebbi - As a Canadian, I agree this is ridiculous.
Having worked in the mapping sector for a bit, it makes sense.
Google/Apple are not deciding what the lake is called. They are pulling data from the GNIS.
This way people in a region will see what their government decides is the correct version for their people.
Let's take this out of the heated debate.
In the most of the world and Iran (strangely we agree on this), we recognize a body of water known as the Persian Gulf. For the Arab League states, they call this the Arabian Gulf.
Is that Google being evil? Should Google decide what this is called? Or just leave it to the region to decide themselves.
What about the border of Kashmir? How should they handle that?
by pedalpete - >Let's take this out of the heated debate.
Why? It's an emotional subject. We can debate it heatedly without becoming irrational.
>In the most of the world and Iran (strangely we agree on this), we recognize a body of water known as the Persian Gulf. For the Arab League states, they call this the Arabian Gulf. Is that Google being evil?
I have no idea. I don't have enough cultural context to make an informed decision.
On the matter of Trump's renamings, Google does have that context.
We do not need to pretend that everything is decidable by simple one-line equations. We are all humans.
In the context of what is "acceptable" for human opinions: It is OK for Google to decide to concede to the president's renamings based on their existing umbrella policy. It is also OK for people to consider Google immoral for doing so.
Both things are within that range. We need to stop pretending otherwise with these weak "technically..." arguments and over-reliance on analogies that we tend toward as engineers.
- All well and good until we found out that Google updated the name before GNIS managed to do it. They went out of their way to score points as quickly as possible.by stanski
- And then he wanted New Mexico to be New America. Capitulation is not just about what they're asking for now, but also what they'll be emboldened to ask for in the future.by davesque
- Hmmm, I feel like it would also be problematic if Google and Apple acted as unelected geographic authorities and deciding which names are politically legitimateby capnjazz
- Honestly I'd be okay with it if Google and Apple decided that the current administrations actions are not legitimate, as long as they can properly justify it.
Which honestly wouldn't be that hard.
by Krutonium - Both things are problematic.
- The executive orders are ridiculous/childish/whatever-you-call-this. That aside, if they have any legal effect, I’d expect a map company to call a feature by its legal name.
Should a rendering of the land bordering the Southwest corner of the Black Sea show the city of Istanbul? Or must it remain depicted as Constantinople? Or perhaps even Byzantium?
by sokoloff - There's a line. It's pointless to pretend "legality === nobody is allowed to disrespect you for complying".
Regardless of which side of the line you land on, this is a fundamental truth. "They're just using its legal name" is a dishonest use of the word "just".
- Technically the border goes through the middle of the lake, and each side has their own legal name.
Is it legally one lake with two names, or two lakes with one name?
What should customers in neither country see displayed? What if the federal government renames New Mexico to New America, but the state government refuses?
by iAMkenough - Google and Apple (soon) make foldable phones.
And why not? Their CEO's are foldable as well.
"Don't be Evil"
Folded.
So here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. Here’s to you.
Folded
by k310 - There was a good editorial cartoon recently in the Canadian Globe and Mail paper related to this: https://ibb.co/fdG9PtSTby stanski