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- Hacker News
- A more accurate title would be “Farmers Aren’t Bought”, as in “bought by John Deere”, like this author is.by fwlr
- My Subaru needs an oil change every 6 months... it takes a few minutes. It does NOT remind me and I don't have to reset a computer. Life is simple, life is good.
My more $$$ German car needs a service once a year. It reminds me. The actual oil change is easy, but THEN I have to reset the computer!! Not so easy. That needs special software. I bought a pirated package from China. They need a subscription too. Otherwise, I must take it to an "authorized" garage... more $$$. And all of this before there are actual problems to fix...
When you pay $$ for a big machine, you SHOULD get everything you need to keep it operational, indefinitely. No separate software packages, no subscriptions, etc. Maybe you need to download something on your tablet/laptop and buy a cable... but that should be it. That would be the law if I was the emperor! (No no no, I don't want to be elected president, stupid job. I said Emperor dammit.)
by SA9G - Thank you John Deere... I just miss the "sponsored" next to the article title.by pedrorissato
- I've always been a bit confused about the right to repair debate, especially as it concerns John Deere equipment. I don't own any "new" John Deere products, but I do have a few pieces circa ~2010. Perhaps my experience is out of date.
Here's how it's always worked for me:
1. A code comes up on the computer.
2. A. The problem is self evident. Or;
2. B. I search online and find the problem. Or;
2. C. I search online and find the diagnostics manual, which I use to find the problem. Then I have diagnostics manual pdf forever, and can use this in the future.
3. A. I search online and find the parts diagram. Or;
3. B. I search my dealers website and find the parts diagram.
4. I order the part.
5. I install the part.
Has something changed with newer equipment that prevents farmers from doing this?
by AShyFig - Fiddling around the way a casual working on their own car would isn't economically viable at scale. Labor use needs to be more efficient than that. Even if you can swap the right parts fast, lots of new stuff requires "permission" to install various hardware. Like some random make might not let you install a steering rack or something.
- The parts have to be unlocked with like a DRM system to work.by codenesium
- Some newer equipment has no service manual available.
It's a subscription, with a DRM system so you have to use their app to browse the manual, and you can't print/save more than a couple pages per month.
by BenjiWiebe - The parts talk to each other and verify each other's serial numbers and refuse to work if they don't match, and none of the documents you referenced exist.by pocksuppet
- Newer Deere equipment has a lot of components that have to be adapted using DSA - turbo actuators, various hydraulic sensors, various suspension leveling sensors, fuel injectors, interior displays, and anything SCR related are the big ones. Basically, any sensor that needs a calibration step or triggers an emissions code, or a few intentionally vehicle locked modules (ECM).by bri3d
- I read a post sometime in the last 6 months about the hot business in Saskatchewan or Manitoba selling older, completely unconnected John Deere tractors because farmers found the subscription based service for connected ones to be expensive and unhelpful. Basically a net loss. This wired post seems to be payola I mean a direct rebuttal to that post as well as the behavioral wave because it's probably impacting bottom linesby fitsumbelay
- The worlds most popular tractor brand (Mahindra) doesn't even crack the top 5 in the US.
If American farmers wan't the most repairable tractor, they should just buy the one that is used in poorer, less-connected regions of the world. Those are built for durability and repairability.
by markdown - This article seems a little condescending. They are neither a mechanic nor a farmer, as they say, and from there it just sort of goes off the rails.by Simulacra
- Why would you pay extra for some website the company could just take away from you on a whim? I have the bound paper repair manuals for my 1998 Dodge truck, my 1995 Toyota, and my 2002 Kubota tractor. Nobody can arbitrarily take those away. Why can't companies these days just print a shop manual and be done with it?by 27183
- they want to lock you in to oem parts because otherwise people might use their tractor for 30 years before buying a new one
same reason car dealerships want you to only go to them for maintenance
- >Why can't companies these days just print a shop manual and be done with it?
They would be losing money without overpriced repairs. That's why they lobby so hard against right to repair.
Even with some kind of right to repair it still seems they're trying to keep you hooked on their resources.
But as you said, service manual + schematics would be great for some people. But companies will fight tooth and nail against it. They lose control over obsoleting older products.
by loopies - A subscription for the right to repair your own machine seems completely insane to me. How is this a thing that is allowed?by Aboutplants
- A lot of vehicle manufacturers don't even give you access to their repair/diagnostic software even if you want to pay.
Tesla for example lets you pay to access their diagnostic software, so why is John Deere the bad guy here?
by werdnapk - Well you see, requiring companies to let farmers fix their own tractors is Socialism. And the USSR had "socialist" in the name, so Socialism bad. In the big, beautiful Land of the Free(tm) they don't do Socialism because that's commie shit.
The American Way is to let corporations fuck you over in any way that increases profits. Sure, they have the least efficient healthcare system in the world, ineffectual public education, massive wealth disparity, crumbling national infrastructure, and a different school shooting every week.
But at least they're not socialists.
by stackghost - Maybe I’m understanding wrong, but imho this doesn’t feel too different from apple care.
I pay a monthly fee for the right to pay Apple more money to repair my phone.
I know some repairs are included/free, but still…
by itake - The term "Self-Repair Service" already sounds so wrong.by alpaca128
- Requiring a subscription violates the right to repair. Even for backwater places where the right to repair isn't enshrined in law (like the usa), people still know what the right to repair is, and often refuse to use a paid service what what ought to have been included in the base price.by nilamo
- > backwater places where the right to repair isn't enshrined in law (like the usa)
You just called most of the world a backwater place.
by artisinal - The EU are the reason most companies in the US have an actual way to repair anything. US companies in general have not changed a thing based on the US law.by ktallett
- The subscription can clear diagnostic locks, but farmers still need independent access to parts, manuals, and durable licenses before the software feels like ownership.by Trace88
- $200 per machine per year. You use to just buy the manual and you had it forever. Farms sit on 1-2% profit margins on average but with a 30% swing in potential yield. They don't like subscription services because their yearly income is unreliable at best and they don't have any margin to waste on bs they might not use.by AngryData
- For a large commercial operation, $200/year is nothing, but it's enough to hurt the smaller guys.by laughing_man
- Where I am from most farmers are millionaires. They are all corporations. 200 per machine per year is nothing to them.by artisinal
- It's not about the money. It's the thin edge of the wedge, separating you from control over your own property - and handing that control to someone else. Arguing about what a reasonable price is, or how they can use vs. abuse that control, is like arguing how the prison guards should treat you, instead of trying to escape.