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- Hacker News
- New way to bully unlocked: join as spectator and throw slurs to force game closure.
In reality, the game needs paused, and to forcably eject bad actors, then resume game.
by nekusar - I’m sure the league has considered less drastic actions, and in reality a group of administrators dealing with an ongoing problem know way more about possible solutions that are available and can possibly work than random HN commenters.by compiler-guy
- FTA: “The black card being brandished will be the final part of a three-step process. In the first instance, the referee will temporarily suspend the match and ask coaches to speak directly to its team’s supporters and parents, while an announcement will also be communicated to supporters should a public address system be available.”
So, that’s exactly what step one of this is: a signal to the crowd “behave yourself/make the bad actors behave themselves”.
by Someone - Basically a red card for spectators. Not sure why it is black.by lucianmarin
- Did you read the article? The card stops play and can be used to end the match if abuse continues.by uncivilized
- Because it does not remove a spectator, it ends the entire match. Please read the article.by Daedren
- The attitudes and behaviors at my son's U9 matches in Switzerland are so distasteful I started inventing excuses to not go until eventually my wife went to a tournament. She came home and said, "so that's why you don't want to go any more, huh?"
Youth football is a plague on children. My other children were smart enough to choose tennis and horses. I'm counting the games until my son realizes football is cesspool and asks to do literally anything else.
by jeffrallen
I am giving you a black card warning right there, sir> My other children were smart enough to choose tennis and horses- We could use one for US Little League.
Ever watched the parents at those games?
- I used to introduce myself to the cop who would work each wrestling tournament our teams were in. They always had a chill time at wrestling, and I asked them which sport was the worst. Basketball. Every single one of them said basketball without hesitation.by LanceH
- by layer8
- Result is a permanent cancellation? Does that mean the match is nullified or the winner at the time wins? Either way, one team could draw a strategic black card. Seems like cancellation of the match is not the correct outcome. What about penalizing the harassing team? A red card result for the team (down a player for the next game). This seems like an odd way to handle abusive behavior from parents. Abandoning the current game may be good if parents are behaving that way, but there needs to be a serious consequence for the parent's team too. Otherwise it will just be another tool.by daveguy
- Why are you assuming abuse by parents is solely being targeted at the opposing team’s players? Parents may just as well be shouting at their own kid for what they see as “sub-optimal” play, and at their kid’s teammates for what they see as “getting in their kid’s way.”by derefr
- For other kinds of match cancellations with an offending party (example: having too many players sent off), the offending party automatically loses.
I expect it to be the same here, with the referee deciding who the offending party is.
by Someone - Abandoned matches are reviewed by the relevant league, and depending on the reason and circumstances the match can be replayed, resumed, or adjudicated. When a side is judged to be at fault, the outcome is often a default 3-0 loss for them, on top of assorted punishments for the players/coaches/teams involved.by lores
- As a ref if I had parent who was more involved than they needed to be - I'd let em go for a while, at a good stopping point I'd blow the whistle, jog over to them, maybe slow to a walk, just slow enough that everyone would be wondering what is the ref doing what are we wasting time for... Then I'd explain to them how they are really being helpful and I really appreciate their help. You know, with just a hint of sarcasm...
Make sure my explanation was loud enough for some other parents to hear. I'd never hear from them again.. hahaa I miss being a ref
by 4b11b4 - I wonder how would this work in terms of fairness to the team that's likely to win. If a match is abandoned, what does it mean for progressing in a tournament, etc. Could there be a perverse incentive to cause a black card to abort a lost game? I'm sure this has all been thought through, but the article doesn't seem to say anything about it.by hakunin
- One can imagine overzealous parents tactically causing a scene to nullify a match result.by ycombinete
- Safety is far more important than deciding who won a youth matchby nullisland00
- I would assume it’s treated as if the team of the offending parent has abandoned the match.
- When a ref abandons a match it is up to the board to decide what to do with the result. In senior games often the offenders get a lost. Plus this is youth games so results matter less.by charlieyu1
- I imagine this is the referee's call; a ref ought to know better than to abort the game because the losing team is throwing a tactical tantrum.by sixo
- Happened last week in the Netherlands. The home team (FC Utrecht) played terrible. They were down 3-1. Hooligans threw fireworks on the pitch and the match got suspended. The match was resumed three days later. Utrecht played much better en got a 3-3 draw.by enaaem
- Quoting from the official website:
>>>>>>
The new procedure targets inappropriate behavior by parents and spectators directed at children, coaching staff members, referees, match officials, or other parents and spectators. This includes, but is not limited to:
Verbal abuse (insults or profanity), as well as physical assault or shoving of one’s own children;
Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of staff members of one’s own team;
Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of players or staff members of the opposing team;
Continuous challenging, verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of referees and match officials;
Verbal or physical altercations with other parents or spectators.
<<<<<<
If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game, then yes, abandoning the match is probably the right choice. I assume they are only defining a formal procedure for practices that already exist.
by qsort - > The black card being brandished will be the final part of a three-step process. In the first instance, the referee will temporarily suspend the match and ask coaches to speak directly to its team’s supporters and parents, while an announcement will also be communicated to supporters should a public address system be available.
> Should the behaviour continue, the referee will suspend the match for 10 minutes and send the teams off the pitch to their dressing room while once again asking coaches to attempt to de-escalate the behaviour of those in the stands.
> The FRF then detail the process behind using the black card as the final step: “If abusive behaviour persists after play resumes, the referee blows the final whistle. The match is permanently abandoned and cannot be resumed.”
Why is the remedy not simply ejecting the offenders? They get three chances to cancel the game, with the entirety of the punishments being towards people who did nothing wrong?
- If it's anything like the UK then it's likely the games are played in a public space like a park, so it might not be possible to eject the parent.by Fred27
- From my experience, the refs typically assign responsibility to the head coach of the team the fans represent. It's not the refs job to manage the fans. They are there to manage the game. If the coach or staff determine the problem fans should be removed, they can do that.by beart
- I referee volleyball. Our instructions are to get the home team - preferably the athletic director or somebody similar but ultimately the home coach if there's no one else - to do something about somebody behaving in an unacceptable way.
We're advised not to act too friendly with coaches because some people might think we're favoring their team. Involving the coach if you don't have to might create the opposite impression, that you're upset with the coach or team.
I've never experienced or heard of this being an issue in volleyball. I'm sure it's happened, particularly at the club level where parents are paying big money for their kids to play. Other sports, particularly basketball or football, it definitely happens.
by jdeibele - > Why is the remedy not simply ejecting the offenders?
Because if the situation is so heated up to warrant an abort, you'd need security staff or even riot police to yeet the offenders.
And no, I'm not joking. Private security staff ain't gonna break up a mob of 40 people bashing each others' heads in [1], and when it's 70 people involved [2], you gotta pray that they've KO'd each other out because even riot cops won't break up a fight club that large.
[1] https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/heilbronn/m...
[2] https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/erlangen-massenschlaege...
by mschuster91 - This is a common misconception. The referee has no control over who is in the stands - they are “outside agents”. Many people think that the referee can eject a spectator, but they can’t. The referee only has authority over the players and coaches.
This is why the first remedy is to ask the coaches to get their parents under control. In general, if the abuse continues, the coach can be carded as that’s the only person the ref can discipline.
by mbreese