God fucking damn it not again

This is, what, the fifth time in ten years they try to pass shit like this?

Is Europe sliding into feudalism? The impression is that the government/megacorp complex are the lords, everyone else should accept their place as a serf and do whatever they’re told.

In the US, we have government programs like PRISM and unchecked oligopolies that surveil us and use that information to identify dissent, sell us ads, and alter our behavior. In the EU, there are these initiatives to surveil us in the name of safety.

Is there any regime out there who's not trying to mass-surveil their citizens for one reason or another?

Who are the organizations fighting chat control which one could support with a donation?

I don't remember the link to the essay that defined public, private, and secret information. Essentially it said that public is ok for anyone to hear, private is something that shouldn't concern others, whereas secret is something that needs to be kept under wraps.

Under these terms most of what we're protecting with encryption is private - finances, health records, etc. I shouldn't concern others.

Sadly, it does, because the world is full of pieces of shite people who want dynamic pricing on health insurance based on medical information, and all the similar reasons, for example. (Note: I'm from Europe. The while insurance system that's in place in the UK is disgusting, and it's nowhere even remotely close to the pestilence of the US system.)

I'm conflicted with the whole encryption topic. We initially needed CPU power for it, now we have hardware, but that means more complicated hardware, and so on. We now have 47 days long certificates because SeKuRiTy, and a system that must be running, otherwise a mere text website will be de-ranked by Google and give you a fat *ss warning about not being secure. But again, we "need" it, because ISPs were caught adding ads to plain text data.

Unless there are serious repercussions on genuinely crappy people, encryption must stay. So the question is: why is nobody thinking about strong, enforceable laws about wiretapping, altering content, stealing information that people shouldn't have, etc, before trying to backdoor encryption?

Thank you for sharing.

I was very pissed at this, and when I read this part I couldn't continue, it boiled my blood.

> *EU politicians exempt themselves from this surveillance under "professional secrecy" rules. They get privacy. You and your family do not. Demand fairness.

A little context here since this website is highly misleading:

- EU Council holds more power in Europe than EU Parliament

- EU Council is pushing this regulation

- this website misrepresents the positions of most members of EU Parliament - it shows "Supports" despite most of them being "Unknown"

Overall, while people should be encouraged to contact their MEPs, I suspect many are already very informed on this & strongly opposed. Whether Parliament will end up having enough power to stop it is a different question.

nitpick but the number of MEPs is not the same in some countries (Slovakia, Spain and a few more) on the summary card and on the representative list

It's impressive how governments never quit trying to implement this harmful idea.

The landing page really should have an open graph image! It would help with sharing and promotion.

Really ironic that Britain left the EU, but is even further ahead down this road. British humour I guess.

The EU: proudly defending human rights… unless you're trying to send a private message.

As disappointing as my national government (NL) has been and still is, at least our MEPs oppose this dragon of a proposal.

The individual MEPs' positions are wrong, it's not 1:1 with the national government's position as the website suggests.

So what is the real solution? Meaning the solution that an individual could use themselves, without further coordination, to insulate themselves from this policy. Is it an Android distribution? Jailbreaking? Custom builds?

Laws generally recognise the sanctity of privacy - for example, so much as looking at someone for too long can be deemed sexual assault in some jurisdictions - yet law makers wish to legislate they be able to view everyone's nudes (and much more)! Weird contradiction.

We do need to take action, but be mindful the data as presented isn’t yet entirely accurate. Note the text on the website:

> Notice: The positions shown here are based on leaked documents from a July 11th, 2025 meeting of the EU Council's Law Enforcement Working Party (…) The icons next to each name show whether we are displaying their confirmed personal stance or their country's official Council position. This information is updated regularly as new responses come in.

In other words, take care to not harass an MEP whose position is unconfirmed. Be respectful in your opposition of the law but don’t be accusatory if you’re not certain of their stance.

Looking around the website, I can only find four MEPs whose stance was confirmed, all in Denmark. Even for the undecided and opposing countries, every listed stance is based on the stance of the country, not each individual. They should really make this clearer; displaying misinformation could really hurt the cause.

HN applauds this vibe-coded “privacy” site yet condemns decentralized messaging.

States control what’s centralized; incentives ensure they keep doing so.

Protesting it is like arguing with a thermostat—it can’t hear you, and it’s built to tighten control.

As technologists, we have a lot more power than we realise.

(Yes, I’m speaking to the blob, but the Venn overlap of anti-crypto and pro-this seems big.)

WTFF. Fight !!

Why is this Thought Policing tolerated?

Are we so End Stage Growth Economy that EVERY power broker see now as the time to employer (IC)Enforcement?

Gestapo much, anyone?

Sure. Fight it. And also Remember this moment next time you're calling people conspiracy theorists because your party politician or mainstream news says so.

Next time think twice before calling people "freedumb" lovers and otherwise label them as Nazis, deniers, -ism, terrorism apologist, foreign government agents and more which is the typical attack when people fight for civil rights and freedoms.

It's always placing them on a false spectrum and assuming the worst.

Now you get to enjoy your authoritarian utopia. All for the greater good.

Can someone explain how they could read my e2e Signal chat messages to my wife about what I'm cooking for dinner?

Can someone explain how they could read my e2e Sessions chat message sent via TOR to my wife about what I'm cooking for dinner?

Genuinely curious. Can those that are in power break this encryption?

So as a Dutchie that opposes this, is there still something for me to do? The Netherlands opposes this, so... should I sway them to oppose it even more? Not really sure what my role should be.

This is actually one of the major fights of our generation.

If signal/whatsapp/e2ee are desecrated, only criminals will have encryption for a short period of time until we all come to our senses and realize that some semblance of personal privacy is a human right.

IMHO, we should fight for the maximum amount of privacy possible within the context of a civil society.

In every generation there is a battle, sometimes quiet, other times a dull roar, and occasionally a bombastic. This battle is who can oversee who.

Surveillance should be the last resort of a free society.

The EU continues to become a hilariously Soviet nanny state.

Beautiful land and country, but they're destroying their cultures with the third world and seem to just not care about the rights of their citizens.

Test

This is a list of countries not to visit with tourism money as a foreigner you’re no longer safe.

The end of anonymity online basically means an end to the internet era itself. We will effectively be rewinding time to the 1980s, when the only news sources were controlled by oligopolies, and dissident voices were simply not given a platform.

That might be fine in a world where every country is on-board, but now that the internet exists, countries with anonymous free speech will come out ahead.

Here's a darker thought: The pre-internet US and UK had a crime problem. Crime was spiking through the 1980s and 1990s. People were disaffected, jaded, they felt that the halls of power were captured by corruption and their voice didn't matter. This is the environment that gave us the original Robocop movie, a hyper-violent celebration of the commoner over both criminals and corrupt government institutions.

The internet economy revitalized the western world and helped us pull out of the crime doom spiral. Without that miracle, we were probably on track for ruthless Duterte-style governments, if not something worse like fascism.

Anyway, I predict that the EU will stop short of actually passing this into law. They're not stupid, and they just want "good boy points" for trying (not from the voters, of course, but people with real political power).

I just had this great idea reading this proposed law and the comments and concerns there of… here me out

Lets just put everybody in the world in prison except for the people with net worths over some unattainable threshold… perhaps a hundred thousand dollars. Then we’ll just make everyone work for and take all of it for ourselves. That way we cam destroy their cultures and the genetic lineages and we can just kill all the people we dont like dont agree with especially if theyre skin color is one we dont agree with. The world will be a better place because the clearly superior people will be on top. We can breed the rest of humans and just eat them. We’ll call them eloi and we’ll be the morlocks.

Man am I glad I live in America. Despite everything, it's still the land of the free and the home of the brave. The federal system here means that the majority of weird shit happens at the state level.

This just hammers the opinion that the GDPR was mainly just an EU economic protectionist policy and not actually about protecting privacy of citizens as promised.

I think the people behind this site did a really good job! Can we donate to them?

Yup, that's where we should spend our energy

*EU politicians exempt themselves from this surveillance under "professional secrecy" rules. They get privacy.

This alone tells me which way I should weigh in on this law. They know what they're doing.

How do you create an environment in which immoral actions become permissible? You legalize them.

When they locked everything down and forced you to wear masks they already told you who they are. They don't care about your freedom or you as an individual and your rights.